Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by IceAgeCivilizations, Mar 24, 2007.
The fact remains that no river valley was described, only sandstones, shales, and limestones.
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The fact is you aren't going to get an "valleys", as you seem to want them to appear, preserved in the geological record for the very simple fact they'll get filled in with sediment. Rivers ARE recorded through out geological record. North of Siccar Point at Pease Bay there are, in fact, preserved river channels. At Whitby, North Yorkshire coast - preserved river channels! In Devon - preserved river channels! These are just examples I've seen around the UK.
In fact, if I may continue my Siccar Point story...
Just north of Siccar Point is Pease Bay (as mentioned above). This locality shows fantastic preservation of meandering river channels with sub-aqueous dunes. On the levee splays are preserved roots (among the first lands plants as it happens). If we continue north we get to Thortonloch. Here, we leave the Devonian and enter the Carboniferous.
Preserved in the cliff is a classic cylcothem. Shales, going up to sandstones, finally to limestones. Analysis of these rocks (by even the dumbest of undergrad students I've taken there) shows a clear marine regression followed by transgression. Just to make it very clear: Marine sediments->shoreline->delta->soil(with roots and coal)->marine. This is one of many such cyclothems in the Carboniferous in this area.
So in the 10km or so of Southern Scottish coast we have DIRECT evidence of marine sediments (the turbidites at Siccar Point), orogeny (the tilting and uplift of the turbidites), erosion and deposition on land (the devonian wadi and river systems at Siccar Point and Pease Bay), transgression (deepmarine carbonaiferous shales at Thortonloch), regression (carbonaiferous cyclothem) and another transgression (marine limestone).
Now I realise you are somewhat intellectually challanged as you are making arguments that geologists dismissed 200 years ago or more (and have moved on from), but I'm at a loss how you can cling onto your belief that the Deluge "caused" this sequence. Did you do ANY field geology while obtaining your undergrad degree? Or where you more of a party student Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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So where's the supposed riveside terrain which would have been covered with sediment from the supposed next transgression of the ocean?
I did lots of field work, how 'bout you?
Speaking of field work, we mapped the magnetic reversals in sedimentary rocks east of San Diego, and since the reversals occurred in a matter of days, as evidenced in lava rocks, we see that the sedimentary layers must also have been layed down in days (about a year). How do you like them apples?
If by "riverside terrain" you main things like crevase splays and levees, then they are right there, next to the channels, just as you'd expect. I mentioned the roots, yes? They didn't grow in the river, but on the river banks. If you didn't mean that kind of feature, then I apologise as I have no clue what you are on about.
I have done my fair share of field work, both as an undergrad (being taught) and postgrad (being taught, collecting data and teaching undergrads). I'm glad your degree allowed you to go into the field. A lot of UK Uni's are cutting back their field trips due to increasing cost - which is a big shame. How did you cope on your degree? I assume you were being taught one thing, while you were there "knowing" that what you were told was wrong?
So an entombed root ball indicates a river valley?
How 'bout those magnetic reversals in days?
I haven't a clue about any apples. Your logic doesn't seem to quite resemble our Earth logic. I'm not sure how you would go about dating ancient lava flows to the nearest day! That would be an accuracy of 2.8x10^-9 for a lava 1Myr old - quite a feat!
Reversals frozen in lave rocks which took only days to cool, you are quite the obtuse and obfuscative one!
Look, I have no qualms about discussing things, but you do actually have to read what I write and reply in a coherent manner!
Let's see if I can distil this down a wee bit more for you (you are clearly struggling).
In the cliff we have clear river channels (i.e. a 1st year undergrad can spot them!). NEXT TO the channel are silts and mudstones, which are the banks. Here is where you find the roots. We have a nice indication of the whole environment - a meandering river channel (which can be shown by taking cross-bed measurements, showing the direction of flow) and nice muddy bank with plant roots in them. How much more of a river valley do you need? I suspect no amount of evidence will satisfy you, as you've already made up your mind...
Obtuse? I can live with that.
So what you are saying is that a single lava flow event shows different magnetic direction at the base than the top. In fact the direction change is such that the polarity is reversed? Is that what you saying?
If it is, then I need evidence of this, not just your word Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Just google magnetic flips in lava rocks.
I thought you said you were a geologist?
Since the magnetic field doesn't reverse that quickly, what you saw were rocks that moved since they solidified.
What we saw were stratified sedimentary layers goat.
Let me try explain this to you again. With our current north pole/ south pole setup the magnetic flow flows in a certain direction, it is created by the magnetosphere.
That flips every 150k - 200k (k=thousand) years. So in a certain 150 000 year period all lava produced in that time (irrelevant on how fast it cools) will have a magnetic flow in one direction.
In the next 200k years all the rock that is formed and such will have a magnetic flow in the opposite direction.
It does not flip backwards and forwards in the time it takes for lava to cool, if it did, we would have no atmosphere.
The flips are frozen in lava rocks.
No, the direction of the magnetic flow at the time of the formation of the rock form the lava is evident. How do you propose they record the, "flip"?
Magnetic minerals in the cooling lava such as magnetite "pointed" toward the magnetic pole at that point in time.
Yes, I have already stated this in my previous post. You can see what direction the magnetosphere was flowing at the time of creation of the rock. Yes the flips happen. IE, north pole switches with south pole this 150 000 years, and in the next 150 000 years it will be back to how we know it is today. Its a 180 degree turn not 360 degree's in one go.
The fact that flips are evident in lava rocks which took only days to cool belies your 150,000 year notion, right?
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