Secession

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Norsefire, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    How do y'all feel about secession (as it pertains to the United States?)

    In my opinion, I see no reason against it. The United States is too diverse a nation for the government to satisfy the people; no matter who is in charge, someone will be unhappy. Thus, the best choice, in my opinion, is secession, and the nation can split up into a Conservative US and Liberal US.

    There are organizations that call for secession, at least here in Texas; they have a reasonable amount of support, too. Texas is an interesting state because it was, at one time, it's own nation (The Republic of Texas) and is the only state, as such, allowed to raise its state flag at the same level as the national flag.

    Secession would solve many problems.
     
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  3. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    I believe every state has a right.. The colonies came together willingly and can get out of it willingly... This is evidence by the fact that at first not all colonies wanted to be part of the USA and after much negotiation things came to being. So its a choice of the states (then colonies) to be part of the USA.

    Also the Declaration of Independence states:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it"

    Peace be unto you

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  5. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    I hope Texas does secede. Then we can invade them and steal their oil, like the Middle East.

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  7. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Good thing you admitted to theft. So the guys over there have a good excuse for blowing up the soldiers, I guess.
     
  8. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    BTW: that is incorrect. It is an urban myth spread by hicks. Check it out:

     
  9. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Interesting.

    Okay. Now that's besides the point; the point is, the US ought to divide into an America for classical liberals and conservatives, and an America for leftists, headed by separate parties. That's a good idea and would solve many problems.
     
  10. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    Where do the people in the political middle go? For example if they are socially liberal and fiscally conservative or vice versa? And since you never agree with anyone else 100% on all issues. We'd most likely end up right where we started with the liberals splitting into more liberal and less liberal and the conservatives splitting into the less conservative and more conservative.
     
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think so. Generally speaking, you are either conservative or liberal; the MidWest and South would probably be one state, and the Northeast another state (possibly the West coast along with it). There would most likely still be trade, as both regions have things to offer that the other doesn't quite have enough of; Texas, however, could almost be self-sufficient. Its GDP is larger than Australia's, and it has the most farms in the US (for food). It also has oil.



    America is a state that was founded because of secession; people ought to reserve the right to secede when the federal government becomes monstrous, intrusive, and against your own culture. America's origins are in rebellion, and secession is a natural and very real solution to our current day problems.
     
  12. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Instead of breaking up the country, why not set up a system of independent states with a central government with limited, enumerated powers set forth in a constitution. Thus the various states would be free to govern as they see fit, but they would work under a central government for issues such as national defense and interstate commerce.. We could call it federalism.....
     
  13. superstring01 Moderator

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    Mod Notes: Thread closed pending cleanup. Or forever.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Mod note: Thread reopened.
     
  15. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    cute but the federal government became what is due to the states refusal at times to meet their obligations under the constitution.
     
  16. fellowtraveler Banned Banned

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    REPLY: Oh boy, won`t that be fun. We can fight the CIVIL WAR all over again or turn into 50 different Countries and fight all kinds of wars for any stupid reason just like the good old days of old. No Thanks, bad idea. fellowtraveler......Oh yes, and you could take on the Mexicans all be yourselves this time, I have been to Southern Texas and they have already reclaimed much of Texas. Hey, but you could all have a hoot and a holler duking it out. Shucks, sounds like all kinds of fun. There would be no US army to come to the rescue and you would have guys like GW , HEADING NORTH if his VIET NAM WAR ERA record is any indication of how much fighting he`d be willing to do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2009
  17. mike47 Banned Banned

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    Many nations have people calling for secession . Belgium has its problems between the French speaking and the non French speaking. Canada has the problem between the Anglophones and the Francophones specially in the province ( state ) of Quebec . In algeria, morocco the problem is between those whose language is Arabic and those whose language is Barber .
    In many other countries there are problems of religions and language like in India, Congo.....etc.
    Sometimes secession is necessary to save lives and money . sometimes it is just futile . Any secession in the US is futile in my opinion .
     
  18. fellowtraveler Banned Banned

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    REPLY: Is this something you really want to happen to the USA, REALLY ? Does our nation not face enough serious challenges in the world with the wars we are forced to fight and such that you think it would be a good idea to SOMEHOW SPLIT OUR NATION IN TWO. And how would you propose that be done ? I don`t want to be hard on you, but these ideas you propose seem so rife with disaster for all Americans and the other Nations that depend on us to protect the free world. I find it hard to accept that this is something you truly desire.
    This is what I think got you thinking this way. You are a Republican and you lost the last election. So, because you did not get your way in the last election you think OR FEEL it is time to just THROW IT ALL AWAY, OUR DEMOCRACY, and create what ? We Americans need to stand together. OUR NATION IS ALREADY STRAINED severely. We need each other to face the very real enemies we already face. United we stand, divided we fall. ...fellowtraveler
     
  19. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    Fellowtraveler-

    The question is not about if USA faces challenges but if the states have the right to secede.

    And who said that you must commit suicide as a whole? Almost all problems in the states are thanks to the Federal Government..... they even over-rule state laws now..... Oh right the 'commerce clause'!

    Peace be unto you

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  20. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    I thought we were talking about separate states, not separate parties; isn't the latter what he have now?

    In the former case, it's a big problem that your categories are neither exhaustive nor geographically distinct.
     
  21. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I do, it creates a separationist attitude of "us" and "them".

    It's not the role of the government to "make people happy".

    "Us" and "them" again.

    There are organisations who call for the extermination of muslims. Who cares?

    Objective ones?
     
  22. Grim_Reaper I Am Death Destroyer of Worlds Registered Senior Member

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    The only problem I see is who gets what and for what reason?
     
  23. superstring01 Moderator

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    The declaration of independence is not law. The Constitution is. Secession is not permitted except upon the agreement of the Congress.

    ~String
     

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