Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Apr 8, 2018.

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  1. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Free speech does not mean 1 has a right to say anything with no regard to truth & respect. Free speech, as well as other freedoms & rights. come with responsibility.
    If he actually thinks he knows things about me which I know are not true & have told him are not true, he definitely has a significant mental problem. Otherwise, he is lying.
    Either way, he demonstrates what a fool he is & should stop for his sake if not for anyone else.

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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Absolutely.
    All I can suggest is not to let him get under your skin.
    Take joy from out smarting him.
    Alex
     
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  5. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    It is not a matter of getting under my skin. It is a matter of standing up to it.
    Here online he is to me somewhat like an annoying gnat or an upset child lashing out blindly. I usually claim to be a pacifist but no 1 says crap like that to my face twice if they even get to finish saying it once. 98% of the time, I am much more tolerant than I believe anyone should expect but no 1 tells me that I know god exists. I do not put up with that & no 1 should have to. That is not covered by Free Speech.
    He is trying to be a bully & could disturb someone young and/or vulnerable. There is no place for it in attempts at intelligent discussion.
    Evidently, he does not believe in Free Speech for anyone but himself.

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
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  7. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Pot meeting kettle, and all that ...
     
  8. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Stay in your dreamworld until you are ready to grow up.

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  9. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks Jan! I know I can count on you to make sure I'll never be a theist, at least, not one like you.
     
  10. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Except that Jan isn't an "overt Abrahamic theist". Jan's something else.

    During the last few years, Jan's done all that he/she can do to keep him/herself mysterious. (We don't even know if Jan is male or female, or what part of the world he/she lives in.) I've asked several times what teaching Jan has received and what tradition he/she adheres to. Jan's response has been that Jan has received no religious teaching and adheres to no tradition. (Jan says that he/she makes it all up for him/herself.) I think that Jan prefers to always be mysterious because providing any information would create vulnerabilities, things that Jan feels could be attacked and would have to be defended. Jan prefers to always be on the attack and always be trying to mess with other people's heads.

    But... Jan has been on Sciforums for more than 15 years. And in the earlier years, Jan was a lot more open about his/her beliefs. I think that Jan still is, or at least at one time was, a "Hari Krishna". (Maybe he/she learned the trollish posting style from trying to mess with strangers at airports.)

    The connection comes from the fact that Jan's Hindu scripture quotes (back when he/she still seemed to be willing to express views) come from translations by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the guru of the Hari Krishna's. But most of those old threads are conveniently hidden today in Sciforums' seemingly semi-secret "religion archives".

    Here's a 16-year-old thread from before Jan had figured out how to work the quote function, in which he/she was preaching Hinduism and posing as an authority on the subject. (It's entertaining in those old threads to watch Jan trying to instruct people who appear to be Indians on the subtleties of their own religion.)

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/intelligence-vs-self-in-the-gita.5790/

    Here's a 15-year-old thread in which Jan is telling everyone "...the B.G. [Bhagavad Gita] is the essence of the Vedas. It is truly the jewel in the crown. All theists should study B.G. in my humble opinion."

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/advice-on-the-vedas.28610/

    Here's a 15-year-old thread in which Jan informs everyone, "Ignorance means not knowing or being aware of ones real position as a soul and taking the phenomenal, temporal body to be the self... Study the BG, you will understand."

    In that same thread Jan tells an apparent Indian, "I too am fortunate enought to read BG in its original language and listen to it in native tone, and can recite a verse or two, so we have something in common." Obviously literacy in Sanskrit, if there's any truth to that (I'm very skeptical), suggests serious religious training.

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/will-the-meek-hinduism-survive.16907/page-2

    Here's a 14-year-old thread in which Jan was playing games similar to those he/she plays now, trying to provoke opponents emotionally by accusing them of being in "denial". Except back then he/she was still quoting from Prabhupada (about atoms in this instance):

    http://mail.sciforums.com/threads/burden-of-proof.31735/page-3

    Here's a 14-year-old thread in which Jan was posing as an authority on 'eastern religion' more generally, insisting that Buddhists are really Hindus deep down, seeking to merge with Brahman. (Many Hindus, including the Hari Krishnas apparently, dismiss Buddhism that way or at least hope that it will serve as an evangelistic hook to convert Buddhists.)

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/theory-of-evolution-and-major-eastern-religions.43026/

    Here's a 13-year-old-thread in which Jan tells us: "...it is obvious to me that the BG is a universal scripture, for the pleasure of Krishnas devotees from all over the universe... It is a scripture that explains everything."

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-bhagavad-gita-and-ethics.48085/page-6

    Here's a much more recent 4-year-old thread in which Jan slips up and writes: "Consider this claim of God's... 'I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me' ". (It's from the Bhagavad Gita.)

    http://sciforums.com/threads/to-pro...te-god-with-invisible-unicorns.143034/page-19

    I call it a slip-up since by that time Jan was trying desperately to hide his/her own personal religious background, actually insisting that he/she has received no teaching, while attacking everyone else for their supposed ignorance about the subject of religion. (How Jan became a supposed authority on the divine, on man's relationship with the divine, and on the beliefs of all traditions, without benefit of any education, religious teaching and without belonging to any tradition is one of the mysteries.)

    In contrast to the more recent denials, I think that there are subtle and not-so-subtle signs of Jan's own religious background throughout what he/she has written over the years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    No I don't. Unless you've never known, or don't know anything.
    Irrelevant, and not on topic.
    That's being atheist is. Denial and rejection of God.
    http://www.existence-of-god.com/existence-of-god.html
    James. Take a good look at the title of this thread. Next, try and explain how me giving you a classical argument for God, is relevant.
    You're bound to think that.
    Then start an appropriate thread, and if it doesn't become populated by stupidity, I may just engage. But for now stay on topic.
    I'll remember that one. Thanks.
    How is it a lie?
    I don't think that is entirely true.
    You have no real need to either believe, or disbelieve. I think you just take it for granted that they don't exist as far as you're aware.
    How do you know?
    Evidence presupposes truth.
    Is there any objective evidence for the existence of truth?
    What do you think God is, why you think we can't naturally know stuff like God?
    I could just as easily ask, why wouldd anyone deny and, or reject it?
    So reasonable people are incapable of denying God?
    Is that what you're saying?
    Why do I have to try harder if it it's true? Are you saying that nobody at all denies and reject God?
    Start a thread, and if it's not populated with stupidity, I just might engage.

    Jan.
     
  12. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    You contradict yourself.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Not totally. Mammals and birds go through REM sleep; the start of when humans start to dream. This presupposes that my cat dreams -- has an unconscious part of the brain. If the OP conjecture has ingrained metaphysical associations entwined with the unconscious/subconscious I could make an opinion that my cat too believes in some metaphysical things.

    https://askdruniverse.wsu.edu/2015/10/05/do-animals-dream/
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, he is. Standard model.
    There's no contradiction.
    A common sentiment among more intellectual ore exploratory Abrahamic theists, who interpret the text in Christian terms.
    Notice: theist first, then study BG.
    The language of "rejecting God" and "denying God" is main-sequence Abrahamic.
     
  15. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Not if he/she is (or was) a devotee of the Bhagavad Gita and Krishna. Nothing 'Abrahamic' about either one.

    Abraham is a character from Hebrew tradition. That tradition spun off Christianity and was adopted by Islam. So those three religions are 'Abrahamic' in that all three have a foundation in the Hebrew scriptures.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

    The Indian traditions that gave rise to Krishna devotion developed separately in India. Their tradition is (however remotely) Vedic.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    But a great deal Abrahamic in the posting here. Somehow.
    Notice: Theist first, then BG - which is amenable.

    https://www.gitadaily.com/atheism-claims-to-reject-god-but-only-replaces-him/ The closest to "Jan Ardena" (check into that avatar, btw) one can get without a Bible handy.

    Finding manifestations of God in various religions is fairly common among Abrahamic theists - they have to interpret correctly, of course. And so the Biblical Genesis creation tale, and similar features of the Old Testament, show up in Jan's posts - the reincarnation stuff not so much (Hindus tend to have less trouble with Darwin).

    Meanwhile:
    If you are looking for evidence that our Jan is not an Abrahamic theist, that would work better, from this thread. But there is still the posting - - - -
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    My impression is that Jan picks and chooses what he likes from his "scriptures", and discards the rest. In that way, he constructs his own personal theism. Certainly he seems heavily influenced by the BG (and quite possibly the Hari Krishnas, as described helpfully by Yazata, above). But iceaura is also correct in that Jan seems quite fond of certain elements of the fundamentalist Abrahamist religions - Old Testament Creationism being one that has come up recently.

    I was somewhat taken aback to discover that Jan apparently rejects evolution. I hope that is due to simple ignorance of the science, rather than dogmatic adherence to religious dogma, but on the other hand it wouldn't surprise me to learn that he is willing to reject science in favour of his own interpretation of a favorite "scripture".
     
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  18. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  19. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Out of curiosity, what would non abrahamic creationism look like, IYHO?
     
  20. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    You could make a list.
    Different cultures have creation approaches I expect.
    I think I am on to something with the eternal universe as it needs no creator.
    We cant argue about the evidence for a creator can we argue for an eternal universe without a creator ...a universe that somehow pre existed before the big bang the remnants of an earlier big bang making up the pre existing universe and so on in never ending cycles that never had a begining.
    There is a thread in this place which you may have read.
    All I am thinking is this idea has popped into my head and it would seem to have better evidence ... it at least goes back to an event science agrees on...can any religion do that?
    And the more I think about it even though all these things are speculative it is an interesting speculation.
    Its good enough to build a cult around.

    And it struck me the message of the ark story is that we need to build some giant space ships and preserve the plants and animals...like Timothy Leary imagined...an asteroid hollowed out with oceans and mountains and everyone is nice and kind...the prophesy of heaven...and someone will appesr with the spirit of the lord or at least a loved human wise beyond measure and loved by all...
    Send money so we can get this thing going.
    Alex
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It has all come together.
    Jan is that human who can lead us all...
    We will need some robes and I have a neat stick starve whatever...
    It came to me in a dream.
    The scarey thing is with the net and utube you could find yourself with an extrodinary following ... it happens.
    Should we☺?
    Alex
     
  23. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    So which of them are compatible with monotheistic tradition? ... or is it kind of like a strangerinastrangelandism, where one talks of thousands of religions being present and yet being unable to speak meaningfully (or, as in his case, post memes about) anything other than christianity and perhaps a smattering of islam and Judaism (IOW, presenting the picture of a run of the mill abrahamic atheist)?
     
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