Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by OilIsMastery, Jun 6, 2008.
no one with even the most basic knowledge of logic and the scientific method agree with you.
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Agreed - some of gaseous O2 in the atmosphere is of biotic origin some of it isn't - there is probably data on what the proportion is of biotic to abiotic is - but frankly I'm about to start watching the Dr Who episiode I missed earlier so I can't be arsed to look for it.
However the conversion of our primordial atmosphere to a similar oxygen/nitrogen mix that we have today was the result of micro organisms, and marked the advent of the evolution of photosynthesis.
Ironically it caused a mass extinction of a huge number of the anaerobic beasties that were around at the time.
There's little chance of running out of oxygen in the foseeable future - even if we poisoned the oceans to remove phytoplankton and burned down our forests we would have enough oxygen for a very long time indeed [citation omitted for the reasons given above]
Not sure what your point is though
So hydrocarbon bonds break apart above 275 degrees F as claimed by Heinberg? No they don't. The 33 billion barrels of oil at Carioca are trapped by 500 degree heat.
So oil can't be found past 15,000 feet TVD as claimed by Deffeyes and Heinberg? Oil companies have been drilling past 15,000 feet TVD since 1938.
ok here the quote you posted - lets tease it apart so you understand it
"Burying the sediments, or the oil, deeper than 15,000 feet continues the molecular breaking until the remaining product has only one carbon atom per molecule. That gas, almost pure methane (CH4) is often referred to as "dry" natural gas. The limit of 15,000 feet is the bottom of the oil window." -- Kenneth Deffeyes"
so first of all, what is the oil window? - its the range of depth at which oil forms - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum#Formation
Just forms - nothing else
No prediction about where oil can be found can necessarily be extrapolated from this - indeed to do so is to misunderstand the terminology and jump to aconclusion that is not supported by the facts.
As the oil itself can migrate in any direction through the rock, and as rock strata can be re-shuffled or subducted to take the oil bearing rock to a different depth, it can therefore be found deeper.
Now beyond the oil window the oil will - as you rightly point out - be converted into methane - but like all geological processes this is slow - not instananeous.
Deffreyes even points this out in the quote by stating that oil continues to be broken down until the remaining product has only one carbon atom per molecule - thereby stating clearly that the process is not instantaneous.
It follows therefore that if we find oil beyond the oil window, it is not proof of an abiogenic origin, it is merely an oil reserve that has not yet fully converted into metane - indeed this is exactly what Deffeyes statement tells us.
Do you see now - references to the oil window related to formation - not where reservoirs can be found.
Scientific language is generally unambiguous, but it is nuanced - you need to learn to spot that nuance to interpret its true meaning.
My point is we will never run out of hydrocarbons just as we will never run out of oxygen.
Well understood processes? Lol.
So according to Colin Campbell almost all oil was formed only twice in the history of the universe.
I don't know how he possibly knows that. Oil is being drilled from igneous rock and precambrian sediments.
Noone has ever witnessed oil forming at that depth. Ever. Rank speculation and I challenge you to find a source for that claim that predates Deffeyes. The temperature and pressure at that depth isn't sufficient.
Your assertion here is taken from the Kenney et al paper - the paper has been thoroughly debunked
Kenney has nothing to do with the first half of the claim. Please link me someone besides (and predating) Deffeyes and Heinberg who have observed oil forming at depths under 15,000 TVD.
here's a couple of pages on the MZOF
36 matches is all you get?
And most of those links have nothing to do with oil.
But thanks. Reading now.
From your links:
Also the temperatures and pressures shown in the diagram there are hilarious and simply wrong.
Not one of those links says oil has been observed forming above 15,000 feet TVD. Try again.
I did not read all the posts. So, here is the question. Those who believe in abiotic oil, what is the mechanism to find oil ? What sensors I need or build to do that?
Best way is an ultra-deep water rig such as an enhanced-Enterprise class drillship which can drill in 12,000 feet of water and 25,000 feet past the mythological "oil window" (the so-called MZOF lol). It'll cost you $750 million to buy or $600,000 per day to lease. www.deepwater.com
I think, it may be cheaper to get the Russians or the Chinese to drill it. As to sensors, I think, I may have to build one from scratch....using multi-spectral FFT technology.
Oil is older than cyanobacteria. Oil is > 3.46 Billion years old.
Cyanobacteria is only 3.45 Billion years old.
This suggests oil is older than any living organism.
Cyanobacteria (blue green algae) does not generate crude oil. Precisely the opposite, it feeds on crude oil and destroys it.
In fact, environmentalists use cyanobacteria to clean up oil spills.
Yes, well at least we're all laughing.
Me, I like the odd cackle.
so you refute the data that the paper presents, but still manage to accept that statement - how very scientific
However you should have read to the end - the author describes the presence of deep oil depostis by two possible methods.
Downwards migration of biomass or upwards migration of deep carbon sources.
So he doesn't rule out a biogenic source at all.
Yup. Thanks synth. I love you forever.
Oh this is a cute little gem too. Scientists at Oxford reject the claim of 3.45 billion year old cyanobacteria.
Fischer-Tropsch-type processes! Read it and weep.
You utter retard - these two articles are talking about the same fossils - the journal article is merely more accurate in describing the date than the popular press article.
what to you think happens to the oil ?
it is merely converted to other hydrocarbons that have a better bioavailability for the bacteria
Your point is irrelevant anyway - Biogenic oil origin theory describes what happens to lipids and other hydrocarbons present in organisms after they are dead, and how they are converted into crude oil by physical - not biological processes - it does not predict million/billion year old cyanobacteria to be present in oil reserves.
No it doesn't.
We don't know how old cyans are. And we know that cyanobacteria are not the first living or quasiliving organisms. They are too complicated. There was life before them.
What it suggests is that we can learn a lot about the early stages of life on earth by studying its remains and fossils - such as very old crude oil.
That is the second time you have been corrected on that point by me. I'm predicting at least two more, in various threads.
Separate names with a comma.