science vs religion...

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by mario, Sep 5, 2004.

  1. mario Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    210
    As science progressess and more and more is discovered, will belief in the supernatural slowly wane? Just like no one anymore believes that we should make a virgin sacrifice to a volcano to calm it's anger? Or will religious people look at every technical advance in awe as testament to god's creation.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. fadeaway humper that way lies madness Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    311
    Heh, I guess the Scientology ads below your post pretty much answer your question. Basically, regardless of science's advances, I'm afraid there will always be a ready market for the esoteric/religious/spiritual/downright whacky, and the products to happily satisfy this market.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. the preacher fur is loose 666 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    476
    I very much doubt that religion will ever wane, though I would like it to.
    there are those who still now, believe creation over evolution and those who still believe the earth to be flat. http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm
    so there seems to be no hope for humanity.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698

    Are these people serious?..I mean come on man.
     
  8. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,509
    That was Voltaire's and Diderot's Argument during the Age of Enlightenment. You know, don't you, that Science did not begin yesterday. Atheism was quite well developed even before the start of the 19th Century. And yes, there has been an obvious decline in Belief.

    But whether the Decline continues depends greatly on WHAT is discovered, no?

    For instance, I just found a book, "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce. Its a How To book for jumping into the Spirit World. He tells you how to set up little experiments like taping a playing card, unseen, face outward on a high outside window. See what it is while projecting and then check it in Reality to know that you have just done something REAL.

    So, Science might be a sword that cuts both ways -- not just against Spirituality but for it.

    And think of the Popularity involved. Will the majority of people go for your geeky dry materialism which offers nothing 'fun', or will they go for the Exploration of what used to be a Secret Spiritual Universe?
     
  9. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Aside from the fanatical that believe holy scripture word for word, I believe that most people's religious feelings will dwindle as science and technology better explain everything. It won't rid religion completely, only chip away at it slowly each time a new discovery is made which proves a certain part of their holy scripture as wrong, but they will continue to believe in the areas of which have yet to be scientifically understood. And since I highly doubt we'll ever know everything about the origins of creation, religion will continue to always exist because of the remaining unknown which we'll never find out about.

    - N
     
  10. TheERK Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    369
    Too bad nobody has ever actually done that under controlled conditions.
     
  11. HARRY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    76
    To Mario,
    my opinion is that trying to disprove God is impossible. Man can only disprove what has been written about sertain phenomena.
    There are passages in the Bible that indicate the various way's God take's away our ability to understand, so we can never know who know's who.
    Science tries to explain and re-create what is see's or understands to be present and that's all it can do. The many catastophic event's in the world's history idicates to me that we wont be all that lucky to find all the answer's in time. We can't even control a few terrorist, I would say God has other more pressing issues on the agenda.
    Praying for peace as it seem will override any so-called proof
    against God.
    As a side note it's a shame that the Bible is used as a weapon against God. For those that wish to disprove God please stick to the nature's wonderful array of creature, plant's etc. What was written in the past is really not for us to judge. If in the future record's of the crazy thing's we currently do for a past time were found. What would their reaction be? I would say what a nutty race of people.
    Historical document's are alway's open to debate so way try to change the heart's and mind's of people by trying to disprove ducument's that can never very verified.
    Nearly every culture has a version of some sort of Dragon creature, that breath's out fire. How can we be so sertain that a mutant dianasour never roamed the earth. Isn't mutation the so-called way life as we know it became possible?
    Please make any comment's or corrections.
    Thank's for speaking out your thought's.
    Regards,
    Harry
     
  12. liquidsilver Registered Member

    Messages:
    7
    please give some references here so i can understand where you're coming from. thanks
     
  13. Igor Trip Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    137
    For science to replace religion, people would have to understand science, but people don’t.
    How many are capable of understanding Quantum physics or Relativity or even how a TV works?

    People like to believe in the spirit world. They can understand that.
     
  14. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    Igor Trip: For science to replace religion, people would have to understand science, but people don’t. How many are capable of understanding Quantum physics or Relativity or even how a TV works?

    People like to believe in the spirit world. They can understand that.
    *************
    M*W: They really don't understand it. What they have is blind faith.
     
  15. skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    30
    Religion as we know it will eventually fade. (althought it will take millenia).
    However, is it is arguable that humans are hardwired to believe in some higher power or supernatural being. So as science progresses and we learn more about the universe (and other universes? and the existence that our universe resides in?) new forms of religion may spring up based on what technology finds. We may still be in the infancy of human existence and would be arrogant to think that modern religion will be the final say. Or even that homo sapiens will remain the most intelligent species. Who knows what "religion" will be like in 20,000 years or 20 million years, but it is likely that something will always be believed based on "faith".

    Greg
     
  16. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    skeptic: Religion as we know it will eventually fade. (althought it will take millenia).
    *************
    M*W: I agree, but I don't think it will take millenia. Christianity is fading worldwide now, and it looks like it is on a continuous downfall as it represents only 25% of the world's population. The other 75% percent includes all the non-Christian religions who believe in one or more gods. It will take longer for these non-Christian religions to fade, but Christianity will be the first to go (with the exception of the very minor religions).
    *************
    skeptic: We may still be in the infancy of human existence and would be arrogant to think that modern religion will be the final say.
    *************
    M*W: We are on the same frequency here. I've stated many times that I believe homo sapiens have reached our teens. Just think how fast we've evolved scientifically in the past 100 years! Before this recent growth spurt, it took us some 22,000 years to reach our teens.
    *************
    skeptic: Or even that homo sapiens will remain the most intelligent species.
    *************
    M*W: Homo sapiens will become our ancient ancestor. As we evolve toward adulthood and middle age, religions won't be necessary to our existence. We will come to realize that what we once worshipped as an unseen supernatural deity, that deity resides in the human race. I believe we are well on our way to becoming homo spiritus.
    *************
    skeptic: Who knows what "religion" will be like in 20,000 years or 20 million years, but it is likely that something will always be believed based on "faith".
    *************
    M*W: You're probably right about this. I believe that what we will have faith in is our own humanity. This is where god begins, and this is when we will realize that we are god. There will be no need to look beyond our own consciousness.
     
  17. mis-t-highs I'm filling up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    436
    leo he teaches you how to hallucinate. how to brain wash your own brain.
    without the use of drugs amazing.
     
  18. skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    30
    M*W: I'm not quite as optimistic as you that Christianity will fade so rapidly, although it would be nice if you turn out to be right. Recent trends in North America do show decline in Christianity. An Adherents study reported that over 90% of North Americans claimed to prescribe to Christianity in 1900, and only approximately 76% in 2001. However, randomized investigations of these statistics show that the decline is much less significant (from the perspective of theism vs. atheism) when considering confounding factors such as conversion to other religions, a more liberal cultural enviroment making atheists more comfortable with "coming out of the closet", and the increase in spirituality and other non-organized religion.
    I'm not sure we can assume that people who deny affiliation to any organized religion and call themselves "spiritual" are necessarily any less devout in the belief of their "god".
    As for atheism, since 1900 it has more than doubled in north America. Seems great, however homosexuality has more than tripled in the same time period. My point here is that do we really believe that over 3 times as many homosexuals exist now, or is it more likely that our more liberal worldview has created a friendlier and more accepting environment for them to openly admit their sexuality? The same is likely true for atheism.
    I'm not saying that religion may not be declining somewhat, but maybe just not to the extent that is first appears.
    I agree that homosapiens will likely become our ancestor, provided we dont become extinct first. I think there are fewer traits that select for our survival these days (at least traits that bring enough genetic variation to create a second race of humans different enough from us to prevent mating with viable offspring (i.e a separate species)). I would propose that an argument could be made that the future most-intelligent species may not even come from our same ancentral line, but from a totally separate area of biological evolution. Sounds unlikely anytime soon, but alot can happen in a 100 million years!! (hell, in that time, i might even finally get married).
    You and I are both also optimistic in believing that the human race is still young. I hope we are right, I would hate to think we are nearing an end. There are some seemingly valid arguments that this may well not be the case, however. One is the bell-curve argument (it actually has a more sophisticated name, but i cant remember it), stating that each species' existence in time is like a bell curve: it begins, grows in number and success, then begins to decline and die out. (although the curve is often cut short by mass extinctions and disasters). Anyway, statistically, if any one person was to be randomnly placed at some point on this bell curve, it is most likely that they would fall somewhere right near the middle. Much less likely that they would be randomnly placed off on one of the tails (just statistically). We both exist pretty randomnly, so likely we are somewhere near the middle of our species existence. Of course this argument is not foolproof, for SOMEONE has to exist in the far tails, and just maybe it is us...but its interesting to think about!...

    Greg
     
  19. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,306
    Science doesn't answer all the more important questions that we have. Even those who understand science and make great discoveries realize science can't answer the questions they want answered. Just because one may understand science, it does not mean they'd no longer have faith or some sort of spirituality. That's the whole reason why faith and spirituality exists, because of what science is unable to give us.

    As for the lack of homo sapiens in the future discussion, if homo sapiens no longer exist, would artistic and non-invention creation cease to exist as well? Imagination is one of the keys to science as much as some may hate it due to the non-realistic ideas (well, what is claimed to not be realistic) that come along with it.

    Will science dwindle and lose it's seemingly golden age of enhanced discoveries without artistic creation? If everything in the future is then left only to observation, there will be some pretty great time gaps until a new unknown observation happens. One of the biggest reasons for our discoveries is because of the "what ifs" that people think about with their imagination. Things that weren't observable until someone created a wild idea about something at the time non-existant and then began to seek out that non-existant idea, wouldn't have been discovered if not for that wild idea.

    People would have been sitting around twiddling their thumbs until sometime down the road that invisible idea would have somehow been observed. But then the person to have observed it without recording that first observation would then be called a whacko and his observation would be called a myth or hallucination due to lack of recorded observation. It wouldn't be until that person finally works many years on some "hallucination" and going through years of criticism and finally proving everyone wrong would anything new be acheived. Because hey, we think we know it all so if we do, there's not much new to be explored without our imaginations braching off and creating new unknown or false advances to be discovered.

    Our imaginations help us where to look for new discoveries, even if it may all be made-up in our minds. It's pretty scary how many fantastic and outrageous ideas have come true. So without that in the future, will science see a tremendous drop in new discoveries without our shunned homo sapien imaginations? And will artistic expression, painting, writing of books or other stories, no longer exist? If so, it sounds like a pretty boring future for us. It sounds like we're gonna be a bunch of organic robotic drones -- a bunch of nerdy bookworms with a bad case of science on the brain. I'd hate to see what they'd all label as fun activities to destress, assuming there wasn't some pill created to get rid of stress which we'd all just turn into a non-stop production and research world. Yuck. And some of you are looking forward to that?

    - N
     
  20. skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    30
    I'm not sure that scientists know that science can not answer their questions. Science actually does answer many questions, and has been answering them for a long time. Before science, we didnt know much about the world/universe.
    It would be more accurate to say that science does not answer ALL of our questions. Partly this is because science is not perfect, it is just a process, but also its partly because many of the questions we ask are unreasonable. It does not even make sense to ask "what is the origin of everything?" or "why are we here?", these are not really even valid inquiries. We dont even know what "everything" is yet....we are still searching.
    But again, science will continue to answer many of our more reasonable questions (i feel that most scientists ask questions in a step by step fashion, based on information we know, and when they find the answer, that knew information allows then to ask more informed questions, and so on.
    So the problem may not completely be with science, but also with the ones asking the questions.

    Greg
     
  21. Q25 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    593
    not really,as soon as you define God = omnipotent,all knowing,all good etc it becomes contradictory,imposible to exist.
    www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/index.html click God
    god doesnt take anything away,religion does,it takes away reason/logic.they want to keep people stupid and under control
    if you cant see it,feel it,measure it,how do you know it exists?
    how can you control someone if you dont know where they are?
    guerila tactics are prety effective in wars,too bad mr Bush& co didnt learned
    didly from the US fiasco in Vietnam!
    also the ME terrorists believe/live by the custom of eye for an eye,life for life
    thats why Israel and Palestinians will never make peace,
    now that US started this $hity mess in Iraq,
    I dont see the end of terorists attack ever!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    or He doesnt care,or doesnt exist,or is evil.
    its b/c its too contradictory and unreal
    www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
    animals dont breathe fire,until you find one that does,dragons shall remain only fairy tales fantasy

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    as far as religion goes,it would be gone long time ago IF young children were not bulshited/indoctrinated=brainwashed by their religious parents/churches.

    if everyone was taught the truth about earth/life/evolution/science/universe etc there would be no fucking chance any kid would ever consider thinking imagining that there might be some imaginary skydude controling their life.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    www.objectivethought.com/atheism/carlin.html
     
  22. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,423
    Mario,

    As science produces more and more fact, I suspect that more and more
    religious 'fact' will be contradicted. This could potentially product more
    non-believers; however, many religions have the ability to adapt to a
    factual environment and would probably survive.
     
  23. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    skeptic: I'm not sure that scientists know that science can not answer their questions. Science actually does answer many questions, and has been answering them for a long time. Before science, we didnt know much about the world/universe.
    *************
    M*W: Science cannot prove what IS, science can only prove what ISN'T. At least for now.
    *************
    skeptic: It would be more accurate to say that science does not answer ALL of our questions. Partly this is because science is not perfect, it is just a process, but also its partly because many of the questions we ask are unreasonable. It does not even make sense to ask "what is the origin of everything?" or "why are we here?", these are not really even valid inquiries. We dont even know what "everything" is yet....we are still searching.
    *************
    M*W: And we will keep searching until we can prove what IS.
    *************
    skeptic: But again, science will continue to answer many of our more reasonable questions (i feel that most scientists ask questions in a step by step fashion, based on information we know, and when they find the answer, that knew information allows then to ask more informed questions, and so on.
    *************
    M*W: Science is a process. We now know that the Earth isn't flat. Five-hundred years or so, we proved it wasn't flat.
    *************
    skeptic: So the problem may not completely be with science, but also with the ones asking the questions.
    *************
    M*W: So true! Can you imagine those who opposed the flat-Earth theory may have jeopardized their very own lives? We're already proving that the universe is vast, but we won't be put on the rack for it like those in the middle ages.

    First, one has to 'open' his mind to whatever truths may come in. Secondly, one must desert any beliefs in a dying demigod savior, because that is just a myth. Thirdly, one must realize his or her proper place in the universe is the only true and godly one.
     

Share This Page