Science Proves God

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Pahu, Jul 7, 2011.

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  1. Pahu Banned Banned

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    When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:

    1. The universe exists.
    2. The universe had a beginning.
    3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.
    4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.
    5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.
    6. Nothing comes from nothing by any natural cause.
    7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.
    8. Life exists.
    9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).
    10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.
    11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.

    Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.

    The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.

    “Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes” [From “In the Beginning” by Walt Brown]

    Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.

    Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.

    The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

    If you are interested in more detailed proof, read, “Evidence that Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.

    [From “Reincarnation in the Bible?”]
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Unlikely.

    Yes.
    Very probably.
    Speculation.
    Guesswork.
    Possibly.
    Under the current set of rules.
    False. Read the links in the first post of this thread.
    Yup.
    Always? Yet to be proven.
    Unproven.
    Guess.

    Not really.

    As things are now on Earth, yes.

    Um, no. Evolution is about what happens to life after it started. And the "law of Biogenesis" is not a scientific law as such, it's an observation (and a very old one at that).

    So rather than wait for an answer you want ascribe it to the supernatural?

    No we haven't. We've seen a chain of shoddy "logic" and supposition.

    Nope.

    Superstitious claptrap.
     
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  5. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    You are incorrect on several points. In the first place, science does not reject the supernatural, but since nothing supernatural has yet been shown to exist or have any effect on the natural world, it's not presently valid. It can only be considered when there are no other plausible naturalistic explanations and there are plausible naturalistic explanations for the origin of life from chemistry and the origin of the universe.

    There is evidence from quantum physics that something can come from nothing, so that's a major flaw in your argument.

    Furthermore, there is no evidence for God, nor can there be. Simple ruling out existing science doesn't prove God.
     
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  7. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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  8. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    Wow! Epic fail and spam in one redundant post!

    I am offended.

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  9. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Why do freaks like the OP come to science forums? I don't get it.
     
  10. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    The same reason freaks like you do
     
  11. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    whats up with the monkey picture ?
     
  12. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Which is what? You haven't given an actual reason.

    The OPs reason for being here seems to be to chat about God. I have no such motives.
     
  13. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    I don't know why you are here ? How should I know that? Maybe it is so you can look down on peons. No that could not be it .

    Yeah sense maybe there thread topic has " God"in it
     
  14. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Who are "they"?

    Because there's no valid answer now doesn't mean that scientists can't study the known universe and perhaps one day while finding the facts out will also find out the way the universe started and where it started from. Only theories exist now as to this question but sooner or later scientists will have the correct answer. Don't forget that even nothing is something.

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  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Huh??? Where did you get that absurd notion? The Second Law of Thermodynamics clearly tells us that temporally and spatially local reversals of entropy are possible, and moreover it places no limit on their magnitude. The Big Bang is nothing more than a rather large local reversal of entropy. Organization temporarily increased (from zero to a positive value) but it is steadily attenuating and will eventually reach zero again, satisfying the Second Law.

    For all we know, other Big Bangs may have occurred or will occur. In an infinite space-time continuum anything that can happen... well... anything that can happen can happen.
    Speak for yourself. The rest of us are well aware of this. Apparently you slept through your second year of university physics, if you even got that far.
    Once again you seem to be several decades behind the information curve. You must live in Kansas, where the science textbooks are not written by scientists. There is quite a bit of tantalizing evidence giving us clues as to how the first quasi-organic matter may have come into existence. We certainly don't have all the details, but stick around for another hundred years and by then we'll probably be recreating the process of abiogenesis in a laboratory. It will certainly be a long, multi-step process, and it will be a matter of semantics to decide at which point "life" can be said to exist. Something similar to the problem of classifying a virus.
    Mr. Brown has helpfully destroyed his own credibility in that one sentence. Evolution makes no such claim, and in fact does not speak to the origin of life at all. I would suggest that you throw all of his writing in the trash where it belongs. He is no scientist. If he posted that fallacious assertion here he would be banned for trolling.
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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