sandy: answer these claims against Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Kadark, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

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    Whether we should use the word "well" here depends on what God is trying to achieve.
    An evolved humankind might be reached through another method, but simply planting a consciousness into a fully evolved human seems not to be the way it is done. Perhaps if God did that and simply gave a prehistory to humanity as simple as, "on day X God created man", any conscious (non-programmed) species would have a hard time taking that literally, and question it all anyway, leaving us about where we are now.

    I would agree that anyone who says that God is being clear on everything is either silly or has some special personal revelation I am unaware of.

    But why don't you think of a better way for God to work that will coincide with the system we are in. It is easy for someone to say, "I could do it better," when we don't even know what the real rules of the universe are yet, and have only a basic understanding, with many of our highest level theories being worked out on computer models and not in any lab.
     
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  3. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Yes how do you give a message that you want some to hear while you want others not to understand it.

    Simple you send a message in a code and give those who you intend the information for with the Key to the code. That way you can give a message and also hide the message at the same time.

    The bible is a code book with a myriad of codes in it. Messages that many are given understanding to know and some that will not be known until the Code Righter says it is time for the keys to be given out.

    Such an Awesome work of Words. To reveal great things and also to hide great things at the same time. Brilliant


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
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  5. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm bored so I'll take a crack at it.



    Deuteronomy is outdated. Otherwise would not have Jesus handed Himself in to the authorities on the account of this alone?

    Witches where viewed as evil people who could cast spells. More than likely where commanded to be killed because they where con artists. Example: Sylvia Brown.
    Again, outdated.
    Outdated, but again, likely because they are con-artists.
    Outdated.

    Outdated.

    Can hardly blame them, how would you feel if your wife cheated on you with someone? Of course, this too is outdated, or don't you recall "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?":bugeye:
    Outdated.

    Outdated, though it is a sin and may lead to divine punishment from God.

    Outdated.

    Outdated.
    Outdated.

    1) Wrong, a man did not have to have his wife killed of she was not a virgin, no questions are actually asked or raised, and often only came if the man was displeased about the subject.

    2) Again, outdated.

    Outdated.

    Outdated.

    Outdated.

    Outdated.

    Outdated.

    Outdated.

    Outdated, in fact Jesus Himself made it a point on this one, healing people on this holy day.

    God did not order their death, Elisha did. Perhaps this is why people aren't supposed to curse?

    Perhaps they shouldn't look into something they shouldn't?

    Very strange, likely some of that OT strangeness.

    Funny how in NT Jesus uses the Good Samaritan in a interesting manner, likely making this outdated.



    Waaaaaaaaaaay outdated, even in the time of the Jews. God said that all people are responsible for their own actions.

    He gave them life.

    Again, He gave them life.

    Same as above.

    Old style divine punishment.

    Same as above.

    Again, as above.

    Perhaps she shouldn't lie to God then?

    Again, He is the ultimate judge, He says who lives and who dies.

    Outdated.

    Outdated.


    [/QUOTE]


    Dude, most of this shit is waaaay outdated since Jesus came, some even before then. Why bother her with this crap?:bugeye:
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Hellblade8:

    How do you tell between the parts of the bible that are "outdated" and the ones that are still current?
     
  8. Star_Kindler Registered Member

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    Anytime where the New and Old differ, the Old is outdated.
     
  9. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    1,973

    Adstar, you are apparently saying that God then hides the message of salvation from those who need it the very most.

    Or, perhaps you are saying that God hides the message of salvation from people who are too blind to see it anyway? What would be the point of this?

    Or, perhaps you are saying that God uses this "code" to actually prevent people from being saved? This would place God and the Devil in exactly the same business, would it not? According to the Bible this is exactly what God does. He is actively preventing people from being saved. That is why He uses parables.

    Why would God need to hide His message of salvation from anyone?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2007
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    34,678
    There's nothing in the New Testament about a prohibition on eating shellfish. But there's a clear prohibiting on that in Leviticus.

    So, what do you do in that situation, Star_Kindler? Nothing in the New Testament says the old law against eating shellfish doesn't apply any more. So, do you think it is important to follow that law still.

    Or is it more a case of disregarding everything that is in the Old Testament that isn't explicitly repeated in the New Testament? Or what?
     
  11. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    1,973

    Perhaps it is simply that, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest…la…la…la…la...la." Isn't there a song about this?
     
  12. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,999
    I thought that Jesus made it clear that the old law was "for man", i.e. what is good for mankind remains valuable, and that which is harmful (like not pulling a sheep out of a well, or picking grain to eat, on the sabbath) should be ignored.

    Simple principle.

    One thing about the law - have you people thought about the probability that 99% of the citizens were never even exposed to the texts of Levitical laws, and ONLY the priests and scholars were exposed to it? The big ones were probably well known, but the rest were probably, in practice, close to non-existent.

    Jesus probably didn't even need to tell a farmer to go ahead and pick some food or save his sheep on the sabbath, they probably would have laughed and said, "well, duh". I'm sure only the scholars and priests had to be given this argument.
     
  13. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

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    jesus made it clear that the laws of the old testament were to be followed strictly, so whatever law is said in the old testament is just as valuable in the new testament.
     
  14. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

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    1,999
    Jesus didn't follow the law strictly - the stories of him working on the sabbath and his defense of his and his followers actions doing so are very well known. I would think you would be familiar with those stories by now, but if you are too busy to become better informed about the subject (although you certainly speak as though you have some authoritative knowledge), I can show you exactly where, just for the sake of knowledge and clarity.

    Also, it is stated that Jesus was "without sin" (1 Peter 2:22 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.") What does that mean when he clearly didn't follow the law strictly?
     
  15. audible un de plusieurs autres Registered Senior Member

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    954
    no need, all this is totally irrelevant, we aren't just talking about jesus, it's a case of like father, like son, and do as I say not as I do.
    he also commited suicide.
     
  16. FreeThinkers Registered Senior Member

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    246
    Abortion is WRONG and it is MURDER. You can't deny that.
     
  17. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    1) Ectopic pregnancy.

    If the fetus is not aborted the tube will rupture and the mother will most likely die, (along with the fetus obviously).

    Do you still assert that abortion is WRONG or have you now changed your tune and assert that it is indeed fully justified at times? Would you prefer that the mother also die? Hmmm....

    2) If a woman gets an abortion when the would be 'child' is just a blastocyst would you still assert that abortion is murder? Needless to say, removing a blastocyst is somewhat like removing a cancerous tumour - in fact cancer drugs are generally used to destroy the cells.
     
  18. superstring01 Moderator

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    Sandy's no longer a participating member of this forum (so she claims), so this thread is kind of moot.

    ~String
     
  19. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Denied.
     
  20. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Excellent example.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

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    1,999
    You can't just assert that the argument is irrelevant, unless you know the passages I am talking about. You said, Jesus followed the law "strictly", which is absolutely, provably, untrue. You said this in response to my assertion that the law was not meant to be followed to the letter WHEN DOING WHAT IS RIGHT conflicts with it.
    So, Jesus healed on the sabbath, picked food (with his followers), etc.

    If you can't admit that your statement was wrong on that level you are simply being lame - if you want to make an assertion that Jesus wanted people to follow the law strictly, without regard to the situation, using sensible background information, you should do that. Isn't that what a person with a "clear critical mind" would do?
     
  22. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Noooooo thats not what i said. The simple knowledge of salvation is givien out to to millions but the deeper meanings and deeper wisdom are given to those who accept the simple messages first. Step by step.


    No again.


    Because they had already rejected God. If you hate the love of the truth God will block deeper understanding from you.

    But again i doubt you will understand what i am saying. You have already rejected the simple message of salvation, havn't you?


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  23. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Eating anything does not make one immoral. Overeating is a sin but eating is not sin and does not make a person a sinner. The law was not instituted because eating some kinds of food is sin. But because eating some kinds of food is not good for your health. But the Jews had turned the dietary laws into a form of self righteousness.

    That eating something made one evil and not eating something made one Good.

    So why did people face punishment for eating no Kosher foods?

    Not because they where evil for eating the foods but because they where disobeying the will of God. The food did not defile them but doing something against the will of God defiled them.

    So if you want to have a healthy diet then adopt OT Kosher eating laws. But never think that by doing so you become morally superior to your neighbours. That kind of thinking is prevalent in islamic thinking to this day. That pork eaters are somehow sinners.

    Jesus said on the issue:

    Mark 17
    14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”
    17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     

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