Salt Water Solves Energy Crisis?

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by Why?, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. Why? Registered Senior Member

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  3. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Well that was impressive. Can anyone back this up? There are many many claims along these line, lets hope this one is real.
     
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  5. Why? Registered Senior Member

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    This is for real. However, the question remains as to whether it produces more energy than it consumes in RF waves.
     
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  7. Roman Banned Banned

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    ...my goodness you folk are gullible.
     
  8. draqon Banned Banned

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    "I tried to save people from cancer...

    ...but killed them with environment disaster before they died of cancer"

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  9. Why? Registered Senior Member

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    Gullible? This news hit the papers. I understand the principle of conservation of energy - and that the important aspect of this discovery is whether it produces more energy than it consumes. But, I can't answer that question. Can you smarty?
     
  10. draqon Banned Banned

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    the main question now is to prove that energy that takes to produce those wavelengths...as well as transport the ocean water...is less than (financially less than) what is produced by the energy of hydrogen burned.
     
  11. Why? Registered Senior Member

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    As far as the nice pictures of the desert, I seriously doubt this discovery would turn the oceans into a desert. First of all, the oceans are too vast to be used up. Second, we wouldn't dare use up the oceans or face environmental calamity. Third, the "burning" is really just the freeing up of hydrogen, which when burned produced water again. So, there isn't any net loss of water - but salinity would rise.
     
  12. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    I'll go ahead and bet you any amount of money that the answer is "no".

    The enthalpy difference between hydrogen gas and water is an inherent property of hydrogen, and isn't changed by how you happen to be producing the hydrogen. And even if you somehow managed to create hydrogen without adding energy, how would you get any energy out of it? The only energy that you can get out of hydrogen when you burn it is energy that you put there.

    It’s annoying when this sort of thing hits the papers, because scientifically illiterate people remember the stories. A month or year or ten years later, when they haven’t heard anything more about it, they conclude that it was “covered up” or “bought out” by “them”. It never occurs to them that perhaps they didn’t hear anything more about it because it didn’t actually work.

    Also, I think it demonstrates a major lack of critical thinking skills that people would consider this sort of thing plausible at all. There are many countries that suffer from a major energy shortage, whose governments spend many millions of dollars every year funding energy research. If large multiple teams of educated, well-funded scientists can’t figure out a way to make unlimited free energy from salt water, the odds of some random guy doing it in his garage are basically zero. I understand that it appeals to people to believe that a single untrained person who “thinks outside the box” could turn science on its head, but the truth is that it just doesn’t happen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2007
  13. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    That has already been throughly discussed in another thread and clearly shown to NOT be a net producer of energy. (In other words, it takes more energy to run than it makes.)

    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=70167&highlight=salt water
     
  14. Why? Registered Senior Member

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    Of course you can get more energy out of hydrogen than you put there. Remember the Hindenburg? Boom! Add a little spark from your Bic lighter, and the whole damn thing explodes. Now, that's energy. I don't understand your comment about enthalpy difference. Are you saying it's impossible to free hydrogen from salt water with RF waves using less energy than is received from exploding that hydrogen in the air?
     
  15. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    You said you understand conservation of energy, but (no offense) it’s clear from your post that you don’t. Enthalpy is the "internal energy" that's locked away inside a material. Hydrogen has more internal energy than water, so in order to make hydrogen from water you have to add some energy. And, conversely, when you burn hydrogen to make water you release energy because water has less enthalpy than hydrogen. So it's true that you get a large release of energy when you burn hydrogen (which makes water) - but that energy release is equal to the enthalpy difference between hydrogen and water. In other words, when you burn hydrogen you are releasing the energy that you added to it when you made it.

    So, even if you somehow found a way to make hydrogen from water without adding energy, you wouldn't be able to get any energy out of it when you burned it - since you never added the energy, there is no energy there to be released.

    Burning hydrogen would be a great energy source if there was a lot of free hydrogen just floating around waiting for us to burn it - but if you make hydrogen, there's no way to come out ahead because the only energy that you can get from burning the hydrogen is the energy that you added when you made it. I hope that makes sense.
     
  16. Why? Registered Senior Member

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    O.K. So you're saying it takes more energy from the RF waves to produce the hydrogen than is gained by exploding that hydrogen. Sounds fine to me. I guess this won't solve the world's energy crisis.
     
  17. John99 Banned Banned

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    Well i have been saying this for years. Salt water is the single most amazing substance on the Earth. You can do the most increduible things with it including medical cures.
     
  18. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    That's all true.

    I suggest you read the link I posted where it was discussed before. It says everything Nasor jus told you plus a great more detail - things like energy losses during conversion, RF losses, heat losses and more.
     

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