S.a.m.

Discussion in 'About the Members' started by Michael, Dec 28, 2009.

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  1. Liebling Doesn't Need to be Spoonfed. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not James, so I am not sure what you were referring to in my response. I can't explain why anyone other than me, perceives something they way they do. That would be presumptuous, and I don't like making presumptions about other peoples feelings and/or perceptions.

    My perception of S.A.M. has been built on many interactions with her on these fora alone. Some of which have been pleasant and insightful. I avoid most of her threads now because of her method of argument which I believe to be one of obfuscation and subterfuge. A way of arguing that doesn't really get anything done, just hurls accusations and has no interest in backing up assertions or accepting that one might be wrong. I generally dismiss her posts because I do not like to waste my time. I have a job, and a family and interests outside of this forum that don't include spending copious amounts of time railing at windmills. I am not going to cite posts or point out where she has done this because I'm not a moderator nor admin and I have no stake in whether she stays or go's. I think she's intelligent, and sometimes has the ability to set aside her obsessions to discuss things rationally and without her usual method of one-sided debate tactics, so it's not about hatred either. I like her opinions on art culture, biology, human nature, and sometimes even ethics. It would be my wish that she could find some peace about the other things that cause her to stereotype entire groups of people, and jump to conclusions about sets of people causing her to hate groups of people sometimes without reason. I personally find that sad for her, and would hope that someday she gets a bit more open-minded about things.

    But you are taking individual little zits and picking at them until they bleed, instead of looking at the whole thing. The whole problem. You deem it okay for volunteers to spend a considerable amount of time baby sitting people who have questionable tactics. And while that may be acceptable for you, it may not be acceptable to others. I respect that you make your actions transparent for the most part, but even you aren't completely transparent. You don't name names, and you don't make the posts you've edited open to everyone. So it would be impossible for someone like me to even attempt to point out the really bad posts since they have been hidden away from our eyes.

    All I can honestly give you is my experience with a poster and my perception of that poster. You can take it or leave it, and it won't change my perception unless you somehow convince me otherwise with assertions and opinions of your own.

    I don't know what you want me to say, Tiassa. You can't have a human without perception. It's sometimes our greatest asset, and our greatest burden. But you can't ask every single person to back up their perception with facts and figures... sometimes it just comes with experience from a greater body of information. Sometimes, it's complete and utter bullshit. It's clear here, that you aren't accepting James R's perception because you consider it (and the reasons behind it) to be bullshit.

    So what now? Stall or go forward? Open a discourse between the two of you so you can resolve it and things can go back to normal? Or just keep dancing until both of you fall out completely exhausted?

    I dunno, but this doesn't have anything to do with S.A.M. anymore.
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Predisposition

    Even James didn't assert that. The condition matters, even by his approach.

    So can I. He's predisposed against S.A.M.

    "Would you really have done that," I asked, "to 'any other poster'?"

    I sincerely doubt he would. Maybe "any" in the context of a member here or there, but not in the context of equal application as his claim indicates.

    And there is still the forgotten aspect of this argument, that second sentence.

    If one considers only a quarter of what's there, I can see why they might misinterpret it.

    • • •​

    Disingenuous to the point of being ridiculous.

    Let me know when you feel like being honest.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
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  5. Gustav Banned Banned

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    in the past; so much so, a tribute of sorts was made...


    i am somewhat of a doddering old fool now
    pardon


    james, if i find you in my house, raping my granma, i will disembowel you and chop your fucking head off

    you have been warned
     
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  7. Liebling Doesn't Need to be Spoonfed. Valued Senior Member

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    How many times do I have to say that I think he was wrong and dishonest before you start to think me honest?

    Yes Tiassa, I think that the incident that set the ball rolling was dishonest and biased. Yes, I think it was wrong how it was handled. I think the whole libel accusation was incorrect and a childish way to assert authority.

    Seriously, how many people are you willing to burn prove a point?

    Maybe he should step off S.A.M. the way you've stepped off Baron Max and let others handle it? That might be a good solution.

    That doesn't mean she's saved though. She has to want to correct the perceptions that other moderators, admins and posters have of her. We have quite a few people who've come back after being banned and still swing the same bats around but know how to play the game.
     
  8. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Didn't say he did.
    The only comment I made about what James said was to point out that James was considering the assertion by itself.
    I was, by in large, elaborating further upon my position, as it seemed to be my position that was being questioned.
    I was, by in large, endeavouring to explain how I came to the conclusion that it was equally valid to interpret it as a threat, not making suppositions on James's behalf about how he understood it.
     
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    he would have treated me the same but than again I'm not allowed to use the same structure in a negative argument others are allowed to in positive arguments and am "whiny" for following his advice in reporting things.
     
  10. Gustav Banned Banned

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    just james
    sam will return and james will be back trolling and trying every dishonest trick in the book to get her banned. it is conduct unbecoming and an insult to sci and all that is righteous and just. enough is enough

    he has to step down for the good of this forum
     
  11. Liebling Doesn't Need to be Spoonfed. Valued Senior Member

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    1,532
    Or he could just ignore S.A.M. like Tiassa does for Baron Max.

    Or do you have other examples of people James R is unfairly prosecuting? Were there other incidents of him being dishonest other than this one? Do tell.

    People make mistakes. We are all human. I've made thousands.
     
  12. Gustav Banned Banned

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    this to me, typifies james's bumbling incompetence and disingenuity


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    absolutely disgusting. he is all over her like some sick pervert intent on raping her mind
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    It's not really that difficult to understand

    Actually, all I would ask is that if you're going to bother responding to me, you do so honestly. I do, whether or not you choose to believe it, respect you, but your argument is just bullshit this time.

    Indeed it might.

    I find myself in a difficult position insofar as I might, for instance, just start applying the standard as I understand it, and when the shit hits the fan, make the point that this is where it was going. But people won't find that reliable for reasons I think somewhat obvious at this point. And, frankly, I just can't bring myself to do it. And I easily could have started with Max.

    If we presume, as others do, that the action against S.A.M. is fair—and, yes, I recognize your statement disagreeing with the action, but the standing official condition is that this is fair—I find it coincidental to say the least that we're finally addressing certain issues on an occasion in which we hang it on S.A.M.; additionally, I expect that the precedent set by these standards will create such severe practical problems that, once it's not S.A.M., we'll have to scrap it.

    The ... uh ... appearance of coincidence, as such, would bother me tremendously. But the damage would be done.

    We have only one way forward, which is universal enforcement against attacking the implications of people's words and actions, and the application of similar scrutiny to statements claimed to be controversial.

    I think both of those tasks will prove too much for this staff to fulfill.

    • • •​

    Maybe that's why he made the crack about me having the hots for S.A.M.: simple projection.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Heffner, Christopher L. "Ego Defense Mechanisms". Psychology 101. April 1, 2001. AllPsych.com. January 7, 2010. http://allpsych.com/psychology101/index.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  14. mordea Registered Senior Member

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    418
    Nope. But if a poster makes a statement that as a result of poor grammar could be easily misinterpreted as a death threat, it should not surprise you if it is mis-interpreted as a death threat.

    Anyway, James R reversed the ban for that, so why are you still bitching about it?
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    It's all connected, but only if you're paying attention

    I am of the opinion, based on the timing and content of his subsequent permaban proposal, that S.A.M.'s thirty-day suspension is retaliatory.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Gustav:

    The actual statement was along the lines of:

    "I am one of the people who will kill you for raping my daughter."​

    There's no "if" in that statement. There's a "will". And yes, there's a "for..." as well.

    If the reader knows that the daughter has not in fact been raped, then this amounts to a counterfactual threat. If the reader does not know that, an obvious assumption to make is that this is a real threat to kill.

    Now compare:

    "I am one of the people who will cut off your head for pouring white phosphorus on my family."​

    The recipient of this read it as a threat and reported the post. I reviewed it, agreed it was a threat and acted accordingly. Later, I was convinced that my interpretation was incorrect, at which time I rectified the problem.

    It's really not my problem if your English isn't very good, Gustav.
     
  17. Gustav Banned Banned

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    i need not concern myself about the original statement when the examples provide an accurate analogy of original. there is both a conditional clause and a conjunctive adverb. are you really this obtuse?

    now
    are you excited? i give you a new sentence for you to mangle


    tadaaa!
     
  18. Gustav Banned Banned

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    scrabble anyone?
     
  19. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575

    too bad our entire system of justice is based on shit like that ja?

    do the crime, do the time

    how patently offensive is that?

    for most, not at all
    for trippy, outrageous
    cos he is special
     
  20. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,109
    except the problem here happens to be your english.
     
  21. Gustav Banned Banned

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    12,575
    according to the latest statistical estimates derived thru cutting edge algorithms, we have lost 1,235 potential members due to the fracas initiated by the administrator of this board

    ja
    they see james being all he can be and immediately head for safer and more pleasant climes
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    34,471
    Except that, as I have clearly pointed out, your examples do not provide an accurate analogy.

    This whole thing is an issue that was resolved in September of last year, so I don't know why you're getting your undies in such a tangle over it.


    Your little jibes are uninteresting. Go and play somewhere else.
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    34,471
    So, anybody got anything new to bring up, or are we done with this thread?
     
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