RStar Wars v.s The CGU

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Hapsburg, Apr 16, 2005.

?

Who wins?

  1. Central Galactic Union (milky way & rim territory)

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. First Galactic Empire (SW galaxy)

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. Rebels, Pirates, and Militias

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. kv1at3485 Strategic Operations Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    121
    If there is anything to see through the bona-fide glass/or-whatever-passes-as-glass window.

    Let's just say this: looking at a 5 km diameter sphere from 5000 km away (a mere 0.017 light seconds) is like looking at a 1 mm diameter sphere from 1 meter away.

    Even in scientifically plausible 'space war' scenarios using only light speed sensors and (at most) light speed weapons, 0.017 light seconds is 'point blank'. (This is mainly because of the use of missiles with bomb-pumped laser warheads, which can be launched from beyond 0.017 light seconds. And of course, a missile has a diameter much smaller than 5 km...)

    Bare eyes won't avail you there. Sensors are going to be a very big part of what you do simply because you can't just look out the window and point.

    (Besides, a windowed bridge is always going to have a limited field of view given that space spans 360 degrees on all 3 axis...)

    Then take into account the CGU which has FTL weapons and sensors and you can begin to imagine just how far away things can get.

    Replace windows using eyes as light speed sensor, with computer screens (or better yet, a big surrounding holo display) using ship mounted lightspeed (or FTL) sensors, with the added benefit of computer analysis. No delay.

    I think I have established the necessity of sensors, regardless of EW.
    And as for scrambling sensors, the good ol' IR will never let you down, especially if the target's engines are burning (which they will be in battle.)

    As for being 'foolish' to rely on radio/other-fancy-method, what difference is there between a windowed bridge and a 'burrowed' bridge if communications are disabled? Waving out of the window is not going to be effective.

    ---

    As for the TIE's, they are out of a job against the CGU not because the crews are not trained, but because they are technologically out classed. The FTL sensor and weapon capabilities of a CGU warship will ensure that the TIE's will be swat from the sky before the TIE's even get in range.

    TIE's (like everything else in the SW universe) was never designed to go up against FTL weapons directed by FTL sensors. Against an SW opponent, they could always count on getting up close and personal. Not so against the CGU.
     
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  3. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    Ah, you mean the l33t TIE pil0ts who got pwnz0red by scruffy rebels in Incom-made crapmobiles?
    Plus, it seems like you're automatically assuminf that all CGU pilots are green. The majority in active service in the interwar period are vets from the Zaaroft War, and they are the first fighters out there when starfighters are used.

    Obviously you didn't read the whole of what I posted. The shields use special electronic systems to tag incoming objects as "Friend" or "Foe", and then lets things through based on that. It observes every incoming objects, from asteroids to space dust, and uses a massively powerful computer to analyze the data in nanoseconds.
    Smart Shielding, is the colloquial term.

    Yeah, too bad for those attempting to jam the CGU's sensors and comm systems, because the CGU ships, all of them, use a little thing called "ECM".

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  5. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    306
    I wasn't assuming that the CGU pilots are green, merely that the elite members of the TIE Corps. have superior craft and gained skills from surviving in something inferior. That gives them greater skill than is obvious. Guys like Baron Fel and Steele, now they were pilots. Anyway, the Empire has dedicated anti-starfighter vessels (Nebulon-B and Lancer Frigates, to start) and they have managed to make fighters heavy strike craft in their own right (Assault Gunboats commonly make runs on capital ships with no other support and wipe them out, and even a simple TIE bomber can devistate cargo convoys). It seems their fighters are just better.

    Shields. Funny thing. I've never seen a shield that can be up in one spot and not another. And it can't have two operational statuses (?) at once, meaning either you have an overly redundant shielding with limited coverage at a given time, or, you must take them down to let other ships in or out. Meaning that when you are launching fighters, boarding craft can approach on their outgoing vector to assault your ships. Also, with your "smart shielding" can you shield against something with no sensor identity? If not, even a ship with a simple sensor mask could get in. Let alone cloaks.

    Finally, let me say that while electronic warfare can be countered, the fact is that the same methods used to counter it can be countered in turn. Meaning it is a race to see who can develop better ones. And the Imperials have had a lot of practice.
     
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  7. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    1. Mayhaps. Still, though, the CGU has very good fighters, and all of thier fightercraft have shielding, something TIEs don't have until later models, and only in limited use.

    2. CGU shields can also open up certain small parts of the shield bubble to let craft in and out in case the "smart" aspect of the system is malfunctioning. And, yes, smart shielding stops things with no sensor ID. Only friendly vessels can get through without having to destroy the shielding.

    3. Then it'll just go back and forth. CGU can counter the Imperials counters with counter-counter-measures, and so on and so on.
     
  8. RAW2000 suburban Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    151
    the CGU would lose on the basis of being the more unpopualar fictional galaxtic empier. Sith rule.
     
  9. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    Hey, can a mod edit the typo on the htread title?
     
  10. xylus chocolate Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    39
    The ewoks would win. Even the Care Bears cant stand the mighty power of ewok technology!
    By the way, how would you make enough power to make that superlaser on your flagship?
     
  11. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    Massive fusion reactor. How the hell else could I do that realistically?
     
  12. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    306
    A giant wall of hamster wheels! Okay sorry, but I had to say it. Anyway, I would like to know if we can even possibly come to any sort of agreements about this, or if it will just go on forever. I mean, we already said that the Force could kick the crap out of them, and the unconventional tactics the Empire could use make up for the difference in naval power, the infantry are at this moment equals, and I can't even remeber if we talked about information warfare. So, where are we going to go with this?
     
  13. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    *thinking*
    *thinking*
    *click*
    Stalemate?
     
  14. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    306
    That's what it would seem, surprisingly enough, or until someone else comes in, in which case depending on what side they're on one of us have to beat them back.
     
  15. Psylias Registered Member

    Messages:
    1
    Alex, i really wish you would boast about our unfinished ideas.... and you also misinterpreted me....and here you are rambling on about a story that hasnt been fully developed both plot wise and the tehnical mumbo jumbo.....although in my opinion the CGU would win....i do not think it would be a blow out.... and for this late post i apologise... i was looking up my ignorant friends posts and or mis information. I do think however that the Empire is wining because of sheer popularity i did no inted for any of this information to be released this early in developing. You can expect to see these ideas in the future on the big screen but for now... alex i wish you to stop boasting on the internet about these unfinished unorganised ideas... and stop blaming all this misfourtune youve had in this debate on me scince you are the one rambling on like this.... Thus i would like to extend an offical appology to you...as a major waste of time...and however insutling to you as this was...as i have clear stated this idea is unfinished not ploted well havent even came up with the main chars for sure... and we are still changing things... and i personaly belive the GSS maxamilion is too pwerful for its own good...so please forgive my ignorant friend and co-producer he knows not what he does...
     
  16. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    Eh. Well, yes, we are still in the process of developing it, but the basic tech of it could possibly best the Empire, especially in the way of industrial strength and thier capabilities as a military-based society.
    Yes, yes, the Max is a bit too powerful, but remember, it was designed as a last-resort weapon, to be used only in a dire emergency. The Zaaoft War did not require that powerful a weapon, but for all the CGU knew, it might eventually had gotten up to that...it didn't, but they built it just to be safe...and just in time, too, for five years later, the CGU became embroiled in another conflict with aliens, one that would reach even the CGU's capitol planet of Terra. The Zephyr War. That war actually could very well had ended with the CGU's destruction, but luckily, Munich was defended, and the Zephyr were finally beat and driven back. Of course, the Max was designed as the flagship of the entire CGU military. You want your best ship to be your flagship, eh?

    Anyway, what he says about the main characters is true to an extent. We have a general idea, but we have not gotten a full-story scope of the character. Just the basics, but the basics are enough to debate with. Generalities, basic this and thats, are enough to debate with.

    And, yes, Weston, I know you didn't want us to announce this story so early, but spreading the word as soon as possible has helped in the long run, as I have gotten help from the local science guys here. It has helped us to explain away some things.
     
  17. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    Neutronium conversion. You won't power anything above kilotons with a fusion reactor in any real sense. Simply because fusion is fundamentally inefficient.

    The CGU is fundamentally incompetent, bureaucratically stagnant, and primarly retarded in its doctrines, from what Hapsie has posted on SB.

    ...Although, admittedly, SW is nearly as bad.
     
  18. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    Then what does SW use as power?

    And how exactly are is doctrines retarded? Pound an enemy planet into fuckdust, mop up with ground forces, and then terraform for colonization. Seems sound.
    How is it's burearocracy stagnant, anyway? It's stable, organized, etc.
     
  19. kv1at3485 Strategic Operations Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    121
    Hypermatter/anti-hypermatter annihilation would be my guess. (Magical substances are most convenient.)

    ---

    Oh, and: Hello, MJ12 Commando!

    -me waves hello
     
  20. MJ12 Commando The Last Cyborg Spamurai Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    Do I have to go over everything again?

    The use of armor when armor is pointless against your jiggawatt weapons...

    The use of mechs when tanks are superior in every way except on giant stair worlds...

    The complete lack of need for carpet-bombers when one has ortillery...

    Lack of need for dedicated atmospheric fighters when one has ortillery...

    ...that's four off the top of my head.
     
  21. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    1.What the hell are you talking about? If you remember, I severely toned down the weapon yields. Because of this, CGU infantry armor can sustain hits from alien weaponry, alien ship armor can sustain hits from CGU ship guns, and so on and so on.

    2. Variation. Many other scifis use mechs AND tanks, yet I don't see you complaining about Btech.

    3. Again, variation, plus additonal firepower of heavier explosives in comparison to an artillery gun, i.e a 3000kg HE bomb is more powerful than a 1500kg shell.

    4. Can anti-structure artillery take down alien bombercraft? No. Aerospace fighters? Yes.
     
  22. kv1at3485 Strategic Operations Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    121
    I believe that when he says 'ortillery' he means 'orbital artillery'.

    If your technology is sufficiently advanced, there should be no problem calling in pinpoint strikes from orbital platforms against ground and air targets alike.

    (Which makes combat on the ground something of a risky proposition to begin with. Unless there's something you really want to capture intact.)
     
  23. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,228
    Oh. I thought it was just a typo.
    Also, the whole reason the CGU does ground combat is precisely that: there are some things they need to capture intact, i.e structures, minerals, land, etc. If you turn a planet into molten slag, you really can't use it as a farming colony, now can you?

    In additon to that, SW does similar things, they send in stormtroopers instead of simply frying a planet with ISD. Yet I do not see you complaining about THAT...instead, you berate only me.
    Hypocritical much?
     

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