Ron Paul ad - running on TV

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Michael, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    If Ron Paul was clear, he would not need an army to follow up on his comments and explain what he meant to say.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Well you recall wrong. I never said that. What I did say was that the Constitution was a living document. It had provisions for change, a process for change. The founding fathers never intended for the Constitution to be immutable. Much has changed since the Constitution was ratified, most notably slavery has been abolished.

    If the founding fathers had intended the Constitution to be an unchangeable document, then they would not have included a change process, an amendment process in the Constitution. And that was part of the genius of the founding fathers, for them to realized that over the course of time; in order for the nation to survive; change would be needed.

    Ron Paul is a member of the American conservative Party, the Republican Party. You are a supporter of Ron Paul, a conservative and a member of the Republican Party. So what does that make you?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    He could have made as much or more as a Physician. As you may know, Ron Paul refuses to accept a federal pension for his public service, something other members get after a short period because they do not have real jobs. According to Dr. Paul, to receive a pension for public service would be "hypocritical and immoral."

    The truth is, you don't want change and you do not want to accept that the system we have is not what the country was founded on and is immoral. The country is literally spinning around the toilet bowl rim and you're happy because someone tossed you a turd to hold on to. Yeah, you're not sinking into the brown bowel soup, good for you, you are however - holding onto a turd :shrug:

    Come on, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Iraq War, the War on Drugs, The War on Terror.

    I tried to make the logical case that initiation of force is immoral. For whatever reason, you can not and will not think logically. You could, but not on politics. It's like a religion to you. I've just never had this problem. I admit, you made some good sense in the MI thread. But, you're not thinking when it comes to Ron Paul Or Libertarian philosophy on the whole.

    I mean, it's like Joe and his inane reasoning that I'm a Conservative.
    How many Conservatives think income tax should be repealed? Not many.
    How many Conservatives think we should pull out millitary out from everywhere? None.
    How many Conservatives think drugs should be legal? None.
    How many Conservatives think abortion is a womans choice? Not many.
    How many Conservatives are Atheists? Nearly zero?

    We could go on and on.

    This is the problem with language and while Joe is an extreme example of climbing into ones own literary rectum

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    it seems almost all people suffer of some forms of this problem.

    Ron Paul would best describe himself Libertarian. He says he's Conservative because he's appealing to people through a logical fallacy. Which is why one has to do to be a politician. He's a man of principle, volunteered to defend the nation (unlike Obama or those other chickenhawks) and is probably one of the last principled politicians left - and there were never many to begin with.

    Firstly, he may have been taken out of context. Secondly, you can only say so much in 3 seconds. When given enough time he clearly articulates his positions. He was referring to the 16th amendment to the US Constitution. Obviously we've only changed the Constitution a few times. It's a big deal when it happens.

    No one claims Paul is "perfect". What a silly thing to say.



    I already said, Paul isn't going to get elected. Our economy is going to continue down the toilet. QE3 will be here soon enough. University will cost much more. The Banks will control even more of our economy. Food will start to rise in price as opportunity evaporates. And finally, large mobs will make the choice to elect a demagogue, on that day, you won't want to be wealthy. There will be hell to pay. If history repeats itself, I see no reason why it won't.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    If Paul is not perfect as you say, then they should not represent him as such. And if he is never wrong, then he shouldn't need an army of people running around making excuses for him.

    Additionally, all the economic data shows the economy is on the mend which is contrary to both you and Ron Paul's forecasts.
     
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    When will you admit the Fed is immoral and incompetent?

    When QE3 is announced or when Ben's head is up on a hook? Take a look out the window downtown Joe .
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Whe you provide some evidence and a cogent argument for same.

    This is just more of the unfounded demagoguery you are so famous for Michael.
     
  10. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    His net worth is somewhere between 3 and 5 million dollars.

    His investments are heavy into Gold and Silver.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.php?CID=N00005906&year=2010
    http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00005906_2010_pres.pdf

    He's become RICH on the public teat.

    And done NOTHING at all in Congress but submit bills which never pass.

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdque...NOT(@FIELD(FLD003 @1(00900)) @FIELD(FLD008 (m)))
     
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    joepistole,

    Lets see where we can agree that the economy is not doing well:
    If the Federal Reserve calls for QE3?

    We can't agree on unemployment or inflation because you don't count food and energy in inflation (yeah, not like we need those) and you don't count people who gave up trying to find a job or worked a couple part time hours at McDonald's as unemployed.

    This means we can ONLY agree to something that is non-negotiable. So, if there is a QE3 then you will agree the economy does indeed suck?
     
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    He hasn't become rich off the public teat. Again, he's not even accepting his retirement pension. IF milking the system where his reason for being politics, he'd be taking the pension. He's not. He also doesn't accept all sorts of perks.

    I agree he hasn't made much change legislatively - but so what? Which is better, being a sellout ratbag politician who sways in the wind on any and every issue and sells the American middle class out for a hand-job OR representing your district with principle?

    Just because most of America is immoral doesn't mean I have to be immoral.

    Think of Slavery, it took, literally, hundreds of years to change that system. It started to change with small kernels of integrity that slowly precipitated into social change and eventually 120 years later ended Slavery. Or not, we could think that human history has a flow to it unaffected by individuals. It still is no excuse to act immorally and against your principles.

    Ron Paul is only here to spread the Good Word

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    He's probably not going to be elected POTUS. And he wouldn't be able to make the change we need to have happen if he were elected. Too many people are in one way or another sucking off the government teat. Ever see a baby when the teat pops out of it's mouth. Think of Baby America with Nukes.

    Scary shit......


    But, he is there to educate the people so that some day in the future small drops of logic and integrity will we ready to rain and sprout wisdom when all is hell and dust.

    When the monetary system implodes on itself we'll have a few choices. We could strengthen Central Government (which is what Joe and Asguard would like to see) and weaken Civil Liberties - which will lead to 3-5 generations of hell OR we could weaken Central Government and strengthen Civil Liberties, which will lead us back to higher ground. Not perfect, but much better.


    My guess is the former over the later. Probably led by a Demagogue. The Joe's and the Asguard's love Demagoguery. Especially Asguard. He'd more than happily see your throat slit if it meant more for him to redistribute as he thinks is "moral". To him, a successful person is only successful, not through chance and hard work, but only through conniving and evil. Therefor it's easier to steal from them - including their lives. It's not all that hard to sway people with Demagoguery. What IS hard to sway people with is logic and reason.

    Once a Demagogue is elected the rich will probably be violently cleansed. And on downward we'll go. If this happens in our lifetimes, it will be then when some of what I've been trying to convince you of, may click into epiphany. Or not.



    The Paulites of that day will lead society from darkness back into prosperity.

    Say: 120 years from now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    What do you mean by well? The economy has been growing at about 3% after The Great Recession which is about 12% better than it was doing a few years ago when President Obama took office. Two, the economy is pretty dynamic, dependent on multiple variables. There is considerable unrest in the economy related to European austerity measures. But that does not mean there is anything wrong with the US economy.

    We don't agree on inflation and employment not because I am not counting things, but because the real numbers, the evidence does not support your ideology.

    Food, and fuel are included in the inflation numbers I use. And the employment numbers I use only included the unemployed. It does not include students. It does not include nursing home residents. It includes everyone who wants to work and is unemployed.

    If there is a QE3 it will mean that the economy has slowed and needs a boost. The most likely reason for that slowing will be either a deep European recession brought on by severe austerity measures or by another threat to cause the US to default on its debt for purely political reasons.

    But QE3 does not mean that there is something wrong with the economy as it now stands. We are in the middle of earnings season on Wall Street. Thus far something like 86% percent of the companies that have reported have exceeded analyst expectations. That is pretty good. There is nothing wrong with those numbers. Additionally, lower fuel prices in the US are driving a resurgence in US manufacturing. US companies are bringing back production that was once outsourced to places like India and China. I think those are good things. But then those facts do not play well with your ideology.
     
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    So basically NOTHING can convince you. Even if Ben pulls QE3, QE4, QE5, and on and on you'll just say: We're doing great, we just need a boost. Even as the USD looses world reserve status and is dopping against all other currencies - you'll say we're doing fine. Millions of workers out of work, a generations of graduates cannot find employment in their field and are graduating with massive debt - right as rain.

    WHEN exactly DO you accept the Federal Reserve system has failed? When Obama tells you it has? When people are pulling you from your home eating you? When you do the unthinkable and buy a gun to protect your property from the mass B&Es happening?

    When?

    Does blood have to run in the street before you stop and think: Hmmmm MAYBE this Fiat currency and income tax WAS immoral afterall?

    I know the answer: NEVER
    Which is why I think you'll happily follow a Demagogue - like Reagan, Bush Jr, Clinton or Obama, only worse.
     
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    We're going to hit $20 Trillion in debt, you're going to think it's fine.
    $30T, $50T, $250 trillion, $900 Trillion .... YUP, it's all good.

    We're not going to make some of our payments: Like Medicare and SS. Well, the payments will be made, but you're not going to be able to do with that money what you had thought you were going to be able to do with it.
    AND you're going to think it's all good.
    ALL is good in the world.


    See, this is WHY we're going to have a collapse (IMO anyway). Because people who are doing well, live in a little bubble and have no clue. Let them Eat Cake. The Demagogue won't be talking to you Joe. He'll be talking ABOUT YOU. That's when I think it's going to click. Not until then.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Ah no. The data will convince me. And that data is not there now. Will it be there in the future? Possibly. And I gave you reasons that might cause a change in the data (e.g. a deep European recession or another Tea Party Party/induced default).

    When the data suggest that the Federal Reserve system failed or when/if we find something better. And I already have guns.

    Like I have told you before Michael, when you can put together a cogent argument to support your conclusions, that will be the time.
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    When QE3 comes around, I'll ask you how crow tastes

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    But, the truth is, life IS worse for under 25s right this very minute. THAT is evidence, you just refuse to see it. How many University graduates can not find good gainful employment and have to resort to working as a waiter? Or if they want to make any reasonable amount of money end up prostituting themselves out as pole-dancers, hookers, or even worse, bankers...
     
  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    Is $20 Trillion dollars in debt and a generations' opportunity destroyed evidence enough for you?
    How about BJ Morgans TRILLIONS in derivatives? Or how about the fact the BJ Morgan controls up to 80% of the copper market? How about the fact that unemployment for University graduates is so high, and the cost of getting a degree so outrageous, most suggest forgoing ANY higher education as you're just going to end up a waiter or burger flipper anyway.

    Things are imploding around you and all you can think to say is: Let them eat cake?
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    When you have a cogent argument supported with evidence, I might agree.
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    First the debt is not 20 trillion - one of them minor details.
     
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    I'm saying WHEN the debt is $20T and we have QE3, QE4, QE5 THEN you can let us know what crow pie taste like.
     
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Why should I have to eat crow? I am the one who uses evidence and reason. There will be quantitative easing down the road. It may be months away. It may be years away. The economy is not static. There will be quantitative tightening down the road too. It might be next year, the following year or further down the road. But it will happen.

    And the debt will at some point reach 20 trillion, but the national income will -providing Republicans don't tank the economy - be at and above 20 trillion down the road as well.
     
  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    There's evidence all around you Joe. As for reason, what do you mean "reason". Don't you mean reasoned conclusion?

    I interpret the evidence to conclude the Federal Reserve system of finance is defunct, immoral and should never had had life breathed into it. Evidence would include: The Great Depression, The Vietnam War, The Oil Wars, breaking from the gold standard, QE1, QE2, income tax, continued inflation and devaluation of our money, the massive debt, the lower standard of living.

    You will look at these same things and see a perfectly healthy monetary system. And when QE3 comes around, you'll munch crow

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     

Share This Page