Riddle of the mind

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Cyperium, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    I believe feelings are like rooms, where you put your memories, in a way a memory creates the room, and the memories related to that memory is also put in the room.

    So if we have a room of misunderstandings then every misunderstanding is put there, after a while you have so many misunderstandings in there that you learn to recognize the pattern of misunderstandings and so when you encounter a misunderstanding then you get a feeling that something is wrong and the information in the misunderstandings-room that relates to what is wrong will be available to you so that you can argue against what the other one has said, since you as well could have misunderstood the misunderstanding, the other will have his misunderstandings-room opened and can argue against you, therefor you should be able to "upgrade" your misunderstandings-room and hopefully come to a common truth.

    We can also think of the rooms as personalities that uses the opposite personality (or room) to know what information to keep, for example we can have understanding and misunderstanding, where understanding uses misunderstanding as a tool to find out what to keep in the room (or maybe in the memory of that personality) and we have belief and disbelief, where belief uses disbelief (which is basically suspicion) as a tool to find out what it should believe in, so suspicion uses the other rooms to see what could be wrong in a flow of information and what isn't judged is let in to belief.

    Knowledge (I believe) is just a strong belief, we cannot say that we know anything for 100%, most of the things we say we know is the things that happen all the time, but the things that happen all the time doesn't have to be true because of that (since everything can change) and we may have to look deeper for the truth.

    Though I believe most things are rooms and personalities, I don't think that everything is, some are fundamental and there from the beginning by evolution. But I guess that they too can be opened like rooms, but I guess that you would have to have alot of insights to be able to do that. Those rooms have riddles that have to be solved before the rooms are opened, the riddles tells of what is within the room, so that you can choose not to open the room if what is within is dangerous (for example, I believe that there is a room of random, that room should never be opened), also there are alot of traps, but most of these traps are illusions, if you realize that you've gone into a trap then the trap becomes real. This is (I believe) because the more you know, the more important it is to have the correct judgement and insight, every trap also has a riddle that you can use to get out of the trap, but these must (I believe) be solved fairly quickly or you have to find a way out of it..

    Well, there's alot more to say but I gotta go...
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  3. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

    Wow. Um... yeah...

    Feelings are like rooms. So you put your memories into feelings? I disagree that feelings and memories are so initimately acquainted as that, but misunderstanding isn't really a feeling. It's a condition or a state.

    A quick pet peeve: You don't need to include the phrase "I believe" every time you start a sentence. Not only does it affect flow, but it makes the argument sound weak. If you believe it, then you have some reason to assert that it is true. Make factual statements. That way when we explain why you're wrong, it will sound a lot less like a personal attack.

    So, logic is just a belief? Is it better or worse than any other? Are true beliefs better or worse than any others? Is there a difference at all? What is that difference? What do you mean by the fact that everything can change?

    See... the thing is, I don't even know where to start with this one. Certainly you'd be interested in the postmodernist view of science, because you've just defined it better than anyone could possibly have.

    Here are some questions I'd like answered in terms of your philosophy:

    1) Mass and Gravity are not associated, because though it just so happens that matter attracts matter it could be the case that somewhere matter does not attract matter?

    2) Can there be truth? On a larger scale, can there be anything? You seem to want to cast doubt on anything existing, since "everything can change" I take it to mean that you assume that no properties of an object are (necessarily) constant.

    3) Do you believe that at any moment a cat could materialize in the air and fall to the ground? Again your philosophy would seem to point to the fact that you can never really be sure that it won't happen.

    4) We have parts of our brains that are dangerous to ourselves? Could you explain the rationale behind that?
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  5. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Misunderstanding is a feeling when you realize it and is then put into the "misunderstanding-room".

    "room" can be replaced with "box" or anything else that can contain anything, a feeling is when a association is awaken and thus the room opens.

    Sorry for the many "I believe"'s but otherwize you would just complain "But you cannot KNOW that!", or something else in place... still I agree that "I believe" weakens the arguments.

    Logic in itself is a system for interpreting "facts" if those facts are invalid then the logic is also, so I can't say logic is a belief, but I can say that logic can be used to create a belief.

    True beliefs? What's true?

    The difference between what? Different beliefs? There's alot of difference between them, and the logic used is often different from belief to belief.

    Everything can change, the world might mysteriously vanish tomorrow, we can only say that it hasn't happened yet...but that we can't know either because if it had happened then we wouldn't remember it since we also vanished...

    1)Yes. Possibly in another universe where the laws might be different.

    2)Yes, there can be truth, but that truth is probably on another level.

    3)Yes I believe that. Look at quantum physics, you might be surprised. However the odds of that happening is pretty loooow.

    4)Yes, I believe we have, some parts of the brain isn't meant for us to control. But in order for us to control it we have to know the principles behind it, so I think that there is a kind of a riddle for every such function that makes you able to control it. Heartbeat and bloodpressure are such areas. What makes us able to control some parts but not other? Isn't it so that we found the feeling of the part, the principle behind it?
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  7. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

    Well, you have something to put into your misunderstanding room, at least.

    I would imagine it would have something to do with freeing up the brain to spend time on things like moving, since the amount of mental control required would be immense. I'd also suggest that anything so fundamental to survival has to be simple. Hearts existed before human beings did, and so the controls for the heart and lungs have to be much simpler than the human brain's maximum complexity. Think of it as a simple, but necessary program written for a commodore 64 that you're now running on your current PC. There won't be a lot of features and you can't change the program too much, but it also isn't clogging up your processing time.

    I don't think you really believe this, but if you do, what a terrifying world it must be.
  8. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Maybe I should explain what I mean better:

    Every time you have a experiance you get a feeling of that experiance.

    The feeling and the memory are two seperate things, each memory have a feeling associated with it, and each feeling has alot of memories associated with it.

    So when we think back and try to remember something then we often imagine the feeling that we had, and suddenly a memory pops up, if that wasn't the one you wanted or no memory popped up then you try imagining details about the memory or try with a slightly different feeling, and then if you imagine the right detail the whole memory pops up. If that doesn't work you think of things that are associated with the memory and so on...

    At least I work this way, sure there is more techniques on bringing back memories but it allways involve feelings in one way or another.

    When we think of different periods of our lives, then we get a different feeling of these periods. Like when you first started school, the feeling of childhood, the feeling of highschool, the feeling of summer, winter etc. everything has feelings. There is a feeling of computer, of desk, of chair, of paint, of a hill, a mountain and all these feelings are put in the room that they belong, like desk and chair, hill and mountain.

    Some people with bad temper can open a room with many bad experiances if he is only provoked a little and therefor be unreasonably mad.

    Some people has learned to manipulate and trigger feelings of others, because they know how to open these rooms.

    Some people can access the greater rooms, "the room of rooms" if you want, and thus being able to see connections in a higher purpose.

    So a "room" in this sense is just basically a feeling, that is created by associations, every association that triggers the same feeling is stored in the same room, the associations are also used to see the connection.

    If the rooms are too alike then they join (this might be when sudden insights arrive) and the parts in the room are joined so that you come closer to the truth.

    Each feeling is like a whole, each part of the feeling (each association) contributes to the feeling. Some parts might be missing, but you can find them by looking for things that gives the same feeling.

    Each part of a feeling is another feeling, so each part is also a whole (with smaller parts/wholes). Then we have the feeling of all feelings, the feeling of you, your mood depends on what rooms are opened, but still if a room isn't opened, the room can still affect you, by just existing, it's when a room is opened that you really feel it, otherwize it's just a part of the general feeling of yourself.

    If you are confused then ask, if you think I'm wrong then I'd like your oppinion, also if you think I'm right but have suggestions.
  9. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Interesting quantum physics link
    Non-locality, Tunneling and The Heisenbergs Uncertainty principle are all situations where a particle can move from A to B without having to cross all the middle points between them. And if one particle can do it then every particle can, and if they happen to arrange themselves in such a way as to form a cat in mid-air then it could happen. The odds for that happen, however, is (very *1000000000000000) small.

    Sure, that you are able to control it, doesn't mean that you have to control it all the time (take breathing as a example), I would rather think that it has to do with the probability of dying...and there are people that can control their heartrate, but it takes time, also there are people that can control their pain and so on... So people have shown that it's possible to control things that at first seems impossible.

    I don't believe that it will, but I believe that it could happen.
  10. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

    I'm under the impression that the people that can do that do not have it under their direct control, but control it indirectly through other means. For instance, you can get your heart rate going by simply stomping and grunting slowly, then faster and faster and faster until your shouting and slamming your feet onto the floor. There's not thing mystical about it, or even difficult, it's just getting your body to release adrenaline to get the heart rate up.

    A particle of energy. They are refering primarily to photons that move at relativistic speeds. Even IF you got a cat up to relativistic speeds and then had it "tunnel" through the earth (an improbability at best, since tunneling across vast distances has yet to be observed) to suprise you on the other side, when the cat particles slowed down, you'd only have the component particles of the cat, or worse yet, the energy eqivalent (E=mc^2).
  11. Canute Registered Senior Member

    As I understand it Cyperium's view on the appearance of cats in midair is the orthodox QM view. It's not impossible, just improbable. Similarly a litre of ink poured into a swimming pool could reform in a precise one litre bottle shape at some point. This does not contradict the laws of entropy since those laws are only probablistic.

    Also it is possible to know things for certain, although it is not possible to prove anything for certain. This result follows from experience (e.g. I know what I'm experiencing but cannot prove it) and from mathematics (Goedels theorems - we can know things even though we cannot prove them).

    I'm confused about the 'rooms of memory' idea. But it does seem true that feelings help to reference memories (I just tried it out - I hadn't noticed before).

  12. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Well, it can certainly be done in many ways (like everything else), but I think that some people wants to control things indirectly instead (because it's safer indirectly since the systems are buildt to affect it anyway, and most probably won't result in death since they have a buildt-in way of avoiding it).

    I believe that we can control anything, cause all doors are opened, you just have to get there.

    When I was a child, I weren't able to move my ears, then suddenly when I tried to seperate my eyebrows (moved the left one to the left and the right one to the right) I felt a totally new feeling, and noticed that my ears moved. I remember being very, very happy, since I discovered the feeling of moving my ears. Afterwards when I would move my ear I just focused on my ear and then made the feeling and my ear moved!

    This is how I believe that everything works, you just have to discover the feelings associated with the control of each function.

    There is another thing that I just came to think about, reflexes, when you were young the brain didn't really trust you, so it took control of most things, then as you grew older and became more experianced the brain left the control for you, but still the brain can <if it doesn't trust you, or realize that you are about to do something really bad> take control and awake your instincts. Like when you realize that you are in great danger, have you ever had that feeling that you left the control and started acting purely on instincts? Instincts can be said to be what the brain does when controlling your heart. I believe that anything can be controlled.

    Another possibility for the materializing cat is that particles are created all the time from nothing, so if they happen to create a cat then it's possible, and it could happen. But still I don't say that it will happen, I'm just saying that it could.

    Also I don't think that we should dismiss anything just because it hasn't happened before. Nothing is impossible.

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