# Revolution?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Da Vinci, Mar 12, 2006.

1. ### Da VinciImpossible is nothingRegistered Senior Member

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Do you guys ever think that the US will go through a revolution (in our generation or others)? I know we're a superpower and everything but so was France when they went through theres. I'm not saying there will be one but I was just wondering about it. This is of course purely hypothetical and mostly just your opinion or views of our world, but I would appreciate any ideas on this issue.

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3. ### seekerofthewayLet go your conscious self...Registered Senior Member

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Well, yeah, of course we will, at some point, some leader will probably really screw something up and then keep pushing the issue and we, as implied in our own 2nd amendment, will rally and take him down. It's bound to happen sooner or later.

One "revolution" that actually kinda scares me is Artificial Intelligence. If we design a machine that can think, it's going to think. And sooner or later, it's going to wonder why we rule it when it is so capable and what not. Chances are we're going to persecute and treat it unfairly because it's a machine. If you've seen the animatrix, that's probably exactly what's going to happen(not the plugging humans into the matrix thing, the machines rebelling part).

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5. ### EmptyForceOfChiBannedBanned

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the governments try to make the people fight each other, in every little way they can,

we cannot unite because the government trys to stop us all getting along, so there is no fear of revolution,

when we can stop arguing and insulting each other then we will get somewhere,

dont you all see that the gov try to make us fight each other and try to make more hate among us all?

so we dont unite and rebel, its basic control tactics

peace.

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7. ### KilljoyPropelling The Farce!!Valued Senior Member

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I doubt it.

Can't even get more than about half the country to get off it's ass and vote.
That doesn't seem to me to indicate that a lot of people would feel either passionate or PO'd enough to actually take up arms or whatever, and actually bring down the gov't.

No telling what might transpire in times to come, of course, but if the recent past is any indicator of what at least the near future holds, I envision further complacence rather than action prompted by outrage.

I mean, if recent ethics scandals in the House of Recidivists & such haven't got people calling for heads on a plate, what more could ?
Hell, the Republigoons' "reform" candidate to replace the last crook who held the position of House majority leader handed out checks from lobbyists right on the floor during a session.
Both parties regularly re-draw Congressional districts to insure an almost dynastic retention of their respective seats.
How much worse can it get ?

We need a revolution, but sadly I don't see one taking place.

.

8. ### duendyRegistered Senior Member

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6,585
revolution ...bloody revolutions always carry on same patriarchal mindset--love o war, and tyranny....deeper revolutions are relatively peacful. grassroots level.
the revolution we need now has to be individual. it means us looking through herd mentality that follows authroitarianism. this might be lonely cause it means you may not be one of te crowd. tho thre will be people on your wavelength. butpolitical prcess-as is accepted- is corrupt thru and thru. a complete closed system. duplicitous. its impossible for A leader to radically change shit, cause thy are just front puppets. behind them is th military industrial complex

9. ### Da VinciImpossible is nothingRegistered Senior Member

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What if the US did go through a revolution who would it be against? The Liberals and Conservatives perhaps? Or another group all together that emerges?

10. ### spuriousmonkeyBannedBanned

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24,066
Nostramonkey predicts that the Revolution in the US will start in a Walmart with disgruntled employees burning down their previous prison with higher management inside. This rebellion will be re-enacted throughout the US at a murderous pace and soon more chains such as McDonalds follow suit. Half USA will be burned down to ashes within a fortnight. And 400.000 angry rebels storm the whitehouse overwhelming local law enforcement supported by regular army units. 100.000 are left for dead the first day after deadly clashes between army units and the rebels when tanks, artillery and air support dropping cluster bombs like they were candy reek havoc among the lightly armed rebel forces. Soon the city resembles a modern stalingrad and the lightly rebel forces have found the terrain where they excel at. A ferocious battle on the second day leaves the Army demoralized. Local law enforcement cannot be found anywhere near the battlefield anymore.

The president has been airlifted out already on the first day, but the rebels push on to take possession of a symbol, the whitehouse. The pentagon has been surrounded. Rebel propaganda is played on loudspeakers all day.

Washington virtually belongs to the rebels.

Rebel forces throughout the USA have taken over major and minor cities in a similar fashion.

The president gives the order to nuke washington.

Elements of the army leadership sees that it has been betting on the wrong horse. They assassinate the president when he gives the order as has been planned the previous night. The vice president takes over.

The US surrenders. The lack of central leadership in the rebel forces takes the official government, or what is left of it by surprise. Local rebel forces take captive the vice president and what is left of the government. This particular faction is under the leadership of a particular cruel warlord. He decapitates them all personally and impales them in front of the whitehouse for all to see.

The US has ceized to be.

11. ### DinosaurRational SkepticValued Senior Member

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No matter how bad the economy gets, the government will still try to collect almost all the taxes they are now collecting. If the economy gets bad enough people will revolt rather than paying or having their assets confiscated to force payment.

If you consider the taxes at all levels of government: Local, state, & federal including sales taxes, licensing fees, local busines taxes, property taxes, et cetera, you will note that government overhead has been taking a larger and larger percentage of everybody's income.

If you consider everything collected at all levels of governemt, including social security payments I think most people with a decent income pay about 50% of it to the government, except for the more affluent ones. If you are affluent, sales, property, social security, and other fixed rate taxes take a smaller percentage of your income.

Until modern times, productivity was such that 50-75% of the average family's income was required for food, clothing, and other essentials.

If the current level of taxation had taken place 100-150 years ago, there would have been a revolt. Increases in productivity has allowed the government's take to increase beyond what was tolerable 100 or more years ago. If productivity goes down or merely stays level while government grows, the necessary conditions for a revolution will be there. Peoiple will not be able to afford to pay their taxes and those working for the goernement and/or collecting benefits from the government will still expect to be paid.

Note the following.
• When the federal income tax was put into effect (about 1913), the average factory worker made about $15 to$25 oer week (780 to 1300 per year). Incomes over about $25,000 per year were taxed about 5%. The constitutional amendent required to legalize the income tax was passed becasue 95% of the voters did not expect to ever pay income tax. • During WW2, a War Profits Tax was enacted. At that time the corporate tax rate was 25%. The War Profits tax was 50% on income exceeding the profits made in a standard prewar year. 1941 (or perhaps 1940) was chosen as a standard prewar year. It was assumed or alleged that profits over those made in the standard prewar year were due to war production and should help finance the war. This seemed to make sense, although there were those who claimed that the concept had some serious faults. Corporations not in business during the standard year have a$25,000 exemption (a guess at what they might have made in the standard year).

Many years after the war (about 1965, I think), congress started getting complaints that the the War Profits Tax seemed to be no longer necessary. Congress & the Senate agreed that the complaints had merit. They voted to change the name of the tax to The Excess Profits Tax. I think that poltically potent name is still used, and the tax is still 50% on income exceeding the standard year.
The above two examples indicate that taxes only go up. Once a government entity enacts legislation to collect taxes or fees, they never let go of the income. I do not that any level of government has ever reduced the total number of government employees.

BTW: Note the percent of the state, local, & federal money promised to fixed payments like interest on government bonds, pensions for government workers, military pensions, and those collecting social security. Now add in the payraoll for government workers at all levels of government. There is not much leeway in the federal budget without reneging on promises. A down turn in corporate and/or individual incomes would create a fierce squeeze on the budget.

12. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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53,966
There might be a non-violent one, but for all their blustering, our gun-toting rednecks couldn't put up half the fight that the insurgents in Iraq can.