Reverse Entropy

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Xmo1, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    Everything moves from hot to cold in the universe. It is a process we share with the universe. It is the Universe moving toward entropy. So what is reverse entropy? It is something that should not be allowed in the Universe we know. And yet, there is a concept, and so there is a probable reality attached to it. Reverse entropy might include things moving from cold to hot. There is your dark energy, and dark matter. It looks and acts like a soup vapor does it not? The real question would be, what is doing the heating. The answer is, according to Eastern observations, is: us.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
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  3. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    I think you mean heat always moves from hot to cold.
    The entropy of the universe is increasing.
    There is a concept called an unicorn too.
    Which is why there is no such thing as reverse entropy.
    Where?
    What is soup vapor?
    What heating?
    Huh?
     
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  5. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    If you have an idea express it troll. Haven't had one lately? It's ok. I get it. Go brush your teeth. It's bedtime.
     
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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Spot the loony.

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  8. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    Does looniness increase with (bed) time?

    Seriously, though I did think I heard that entropy can go into reverse locally (but I find entropy difficult) and am not sure quite what was meant.

    Perhaps an example might be when we build a car we decrease the entropy of the elements that were used as building materials. Am I right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  9. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I just finished posting the following in a different forum

    Most of it I hope may be of help

    Since I am to lazy to retype I just cut and pasted

    At the Universe level length of existence depends on physics and entropy. What ever the total energy is within the Universe it is being diluted by the expansion of the Universe. Localised areas of the Universe which contain more energy than their surrounds loose their energy to areas with a lower energy level. Since there is no outside of the Universe replacement, for the diluted and lower level energies to be re concentrated or raised, this degradation of energy will continue until even atom particals vanish

    Life for a short time in specific ways swims up stream against the flow energy falling from a higher to lower level

    Food taken in replaces the energy lost from keeping the life process (very basically the energy needed to grow and repair the body). But then life runs into another problem

    Both growth and repair and / or replacing cells (the building bricks of the body) requires the cells to be replicated. No easy task when each system of the body needs their own brick version and some parts of the system need a subset of bricks

    With the total system on line 24 hours a day mistake are made. Soon the bricks are so odd in shape they no longer fit the system they were supposed to have repaired

    Cheers

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  10. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes entropy does decrease locally in many situations, for example whenever water freezes, but that is at the expense of an increase of entropy in the environment, as a result of the exporting to it of the Latent Heat of Fusion, which is released by the water as it freezes.

    My understanding of the 2nd Law is that reversible processes (which are usually artificial or theoretical rather than real) proceed with zero overall entropy increase, and irreversible or spontaneous ones proceed with a net entropy increase.

    Increase is entropy is sometimes called the arrowhead on the direction of time, because although individual processes in physics can be modelled by mechanics which is intrinsically reversible, the aggregate of them is not, due to entropy increase.

    This is probably what our friend has - very loosely - in mind in the OP. But "soup vapour" etc seems to be the product of a super-strength bong, or equivalent.
     
  11. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

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    I didn't write a dissertation to prove the idea. I just fired off a quick script about something I was thinking at the moment. Soup vapor is something you can't see very well, but it lets you know there is soup in the area. It informs a person on the kind of soup, and the likely temperature and creation time of the soup. If the process of heat moving toward cold is standard in the universe we know, maybe it's not standard in the universe we do not know. So, even though I think dark energy and dark matter are parts of 'our' universe they might not be as well. Regardless, is dark energy cold or hot? Does dark matter have high entropy, or low entropy? Are the processes the same? Could they be different? This is a fairly complex question that I thought I asked well enough to be understood using the quick and dirty method. The replies were, of course, fairies and bongs. OK. I get it.
     
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Well, this post of yours is a hell of a lot more coherent than the OP. If you'd written it like this, we would not be taking the piss out of you.
     
  13. superstring01 Moderator

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    Reverse entropy in an entire isolated system is impossible. Energy always moves --in toto-- to a less ordered state. That doesn't mean that there cannot be uneven pockets where matter-energy becomes more ordered, but that process (like, for example, life on Earth) comes at the expense of increased entropy elsewhere. In other words, to generate this tiny island of order (Earth's surface) we are literally consuming unimaginable quantities of solar energy. We're literally burning a whole fucking star to create this order. That's the fundamental aspect of Relativity -- we know the equation for converting matter to energy and energy to matter. For us, to increase order, we decrease it elsewhere around us an a accelerated rate that would not happen so rapidly if we weren't creating this pocket of order.

    But whatever we do, only delays the inevitable. Eventually our core will solidify and the sun will cool. Even if we are capable of moving to another pocket of energy, in about 100-500 billion years, the last star will finish its run and the Stelliferous Era will end. We will enter the Degenerate Era where the last remaining super-bodies will be black holes, dwarf stars and wandering bits of planets. That period will last a period of time so massive that it's pointless to consider, 10^100th years. Eventually even the black holes will evaporate. But that won't be for a period of time that the first unimaginable period of time (that "10^100" one) will be but a flash of a second compared to our history so far.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
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