And remember that one space marine has the experiance of centuries of battle and thousands of engagements, both space, land, and air. They are all traiend ine very facet of combat. There is no soldier that is better prepared for battle and is more experianced than a space marine.
Dude, I don't care if you continue to participate in the thread. Just as long as you do two things: A) Quit whining. B) Read the thread. Now, you haven't said anything more about the cheapness of the replicators only by the mere fact that TWScott is doing better at defending WH40K than you ever did. Whereas he has the chance of showing replicators losing, you probably feel it is safe to come back to the table. However, I'm not pointing out to that fact as what rule you should follow (as again, you haven't whined in this post), but the rule you didn't is reading the thread: You ought to refute that before you remention what has already been mentioned. Replicators are not soldiers. We're not comparing two soldiers, so all that experience has shown nothing to trump the reps. People normally bring this up in WH40k vs Halo or of the likes where its two soldiers based on their combat experience and aim. Replicators don't aim, they aren't even human-sized (excluding human-form replicators and Asurans), and they don't take cover. They are tiny metal Tyranids.
Well, it's not really a rule, but it would really help if you've watched Stargate SG-1. Because you would understand that replicators do not work on the premise of circuitry and electrons. Instead, they work on the (fictional) particle of the kiron. Though, not entirely a wave of the magic wand, the Asgard state that humans just have yet to discover the kiron particle. EMP or an electromagnetic pulse is electromagnetic radiation or a massive oscillating EM field from Compton-recoil electrons (caused by gamma ray photons colliding with electrons). In short, it short circuits systems that rely on electric signals (electron circuitry). Because replicators use a different particle, it is unaffected by an electromagnetic wave or even electromagnetic field. Though I believe they could be magnetized, I think they have control over that through the fact that they can scale walls (though they can also scale non-metal walls). If they were that easy to be destroyed, then they wouldn't be a threat to anyone, now would they? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Time for plane B Through water at them Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Also in case you havent noticed, the sub space of the warhammer 40,000 universe is infested with the warp and chaos. The second that the stargate universe connects the chaos will begin seeping into that universe. All you need to do is for the chaos forces to put several jamming equipments throughout the subspace chaos world. Kinda hard to communicate now eh?
Water only affects mechanical and electrical systems as it is a conductor for electrons, thus short circuiting the systems by bridging connectors past resistors. Again, kiron particles are not electrons. They are reactive modulating monopolar energy. Woo woo science, I know, but it's just the same as the majority of Warhammer 40k technology. Wrong. The Warp is not subspace, but instead a parallel dimension to the 4 dimensions that we know now. Subspace exists on the premise that the 4 dimensional universe that we know now is layered (like a cake), and therefore has 'sub' or under sections in which certain matter or energy can travel at faster (and isolated) than they would traveling in the normal plane of space-time. Warhammer 40k Warp: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warp Concept of Subspace: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace_(Star_Trek)
Oh... well, one can never be to sure. Now if anyone thinks about it, there's an answer. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I'm not trying to get on your ass about semantics, but I would find it bizarre that a codex would describe it as so. So, could you possibly (if not constrained) find the specific line from the codex that states that? I've always read it as a parallel, as in a second facet to the universe, much like a coin. Heads is the Materium, and tails is the Immaterium. Subspace in Star Trek (and subsequently Stargate) has the subspace as a part of the 'heads' side of the coin.
Why cant it ever be a double headed coin? Because the second parallel universe is always evil. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The Warp IS evil. The only exceptions would be Eldar gods. Everyone else is analogous to the Realm of Chaos and demons of their Warhammer Fantasy counterpart. So, they shall remain as 'tails' until the God Emperor reawakens and destroys the Chaos gods. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I'm sorry, but given the description of the Bolter it uses Dueterium as it explosive. At worst this is a heavy hydrogen FAE at best a mini fusion bomb. 38,000 years of development would not leave us at the same tech level. So your assertion is flawed on a massive scale Like Stargate is NOT Science Fantasy? Like Star Trek is not Science Fantasy? Like Starwars is not Science Fantasy? Like Babylon 5 is not Science Fantasy? Hell only Firefly could be considered realistic science fiction [/QUOTE] Actually, the Bilter rifle is desribed as semi automatic. Heavier weapons like the heavy bolter and assault cannon are full auto and used to spray large areas. Not only that but flamers would take out large swaths of them as would frag missles. Not to metion frag grenades and god forbid we let the tanks play. Oh and Librarians would make mockeries of the Replicators. The one advantage Replicators have is a short range ability to dissolve metals. As most everything in W40K is a composite of some sort this would be a problem. However i will mention again the Eldar would completely own the Replicators. Absolutely nothing they own is made of metal. Only the great Avatar of Khaine is even metallic and tis only after it's destruction. So Quite literally the Replicators could not defeat the Eldar. The Tryanids would only avoid replicator held worlds that held no life at all. If there was life there, the fleet would come and Replicators would die l;earning nothing, Another facet would be if the met any of the C'tan. These being of immese power seem to have complete mastery of all machines.
Because Space Marines shoot nukes from their machine guns, am I right? Yeah, because that makes total sense. Just because they use deuterium, does not mean it has the yield of a Nagasaki/Hiroshima nuclear explosion. You need a certain amount of deuterium within a chain reaction to create the yields we know today. Secondly, no description ever states WHAT the deuterium does. It never stated whether they fused them, split them, whatever. All we know is that the explosive charge is handled someway with deuterium. Even the smallest nuclear devices (Davy Crockett) created massive irradiation and casualties. Never have I seen a description that puts bolters at that power. Now give me a source, or YOUR assertion is massively flawed. You mistake soft science fiction for science fantasy. Yeah, Warhammer 40K is definitely science fantasy since they have magic! Tzeentch is the god of fricken magic. Stargate and Baylon 5 may be a bit soft, but they are full blown science fictions. All of their concepts may be a wave of a wand, but are grounded in some principle of hypothetical sciences. Whereas ascension is more of a philosophical premise, rather and than scientific (though energy beings have been a popular science material). However, Warhammer 40k never explains magic to be rational, have guys that use axes, hammers, and shields. There are whoopdifrickendoo space elves, orcs, and even dwarves. You cannot tell me with a straight face that any of that could even being remotely possible. "Science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible." - Rod Sterling Thanks for reading my posts, thanks a lot. On frag grenades, grenades are not a primary armament. They'll only have a couple hundred at their disposal. And if they're made out of adamantium, then I doubt flamers will do much. Otherwise, flamers would just be the ultimate end all weapon, now wouldn't it? Yeah, they'll crush a few, but they aren't that much better than their non-psychic brother marines. Take for instance that the Ultramarines had librarians yet could not repel the Tyranid forces. Yeah, that's because Librarians are good at taking out loads of Tyranids, but not eradicating them. Even the Tyranids managed to destroy a loads of Ultramarines (I'm betting Librarians included). Better off with regular Space Marines, man. The only material that will have a remote defense against replicator spray would be ceramite. Everything else is a metal. Read my words: Metal. Metttal. Me-tal. Metal, metal, metal. Secondly, replicator spray worked on Anubis' Kull warriors, who had armor similar to ceramite (immune to energy weapons, projectiles, small missiles). Because I can compromise, I'll suppose they can't eat ceramite, just because I'm nice. However, if it has metal, it is consumable. TWScott: "It's a composite, whoopeewhoowhoo!" No. Adamantium and plasteel are fair game. Quit trying to circumvent it or I'll state that Kull warriors are made of composites and then say Replicators can consume any material you throw at it. And logically so, though they may not be able to build out of it, they have never been shown to be blocked by any substance. The Asgard had to build the time dilation device out of neutronium (super dense star material), and even then it was passed. If plastics or ceramics could stop them, they would have built it out of that. Again, I'm agreeable to an extent, but if you bring up ideas that everything is a composite (hur hur) and that replicators can't eat it, then reference what I stated above. But because I'm fair and just, every metal (plasteel, adamantium) is eatable. Ceramite is not. We'll leave it at that. Before you state anything about Space Marines are made out of entirely ceramite, read my prior posts or I will... *composes self* Read my posts, buck-o. You, sir, cannot read my posts, because you are selectively illiterate or you don't like to debate, just typity, type, type, FRICKING TYPE! Eldar have small numbers of craftworlds, and are barely making an existence, as they're constantly running around the universe in their webway. Sure the Replicators may not be able to take them out (I bet craftworlds are filled with unarmored civilians), but no way Eldar have the ability to take them out. Replicators, like Tyrandis, are nomadic. Secondly, you don't understand subspace communication. It's uber fast, and always active. They are always learning something. Now you're pulling shit out of your ass. No they don't. They have high technology, but if they had control over machines, then the Adeptus Mechanicus would be royally screwed, as well as anything fielded by them (everything). The Adeptus Mechanicus make everything and imbue all their things with the machine spirit. Even Space Marines have their armor made by them (original Emperor armor were long lost). Terminators are the only things that wouldn't be created by the Adeptus Mechanicus. And the C'tan has never been shown to possess Space marines or anything. They can do nothing to the replicators except break them physically like any other race has been doing. READ MY POSTS BEFORE REPLYING, THANK YOU
What I'm stating is that you cannot lower a nuclear reaction to the level of a 40mm explosion. There is a minimal yield. Secondly, the amount of energy released by a single fusion event is tremendous, much more than fission. You can't just have a 40mm explosion. It takes a fission event to trigger a SINGLE fusion reaction event, and then from there they can chain react multiple fusion reactions. Bolts do not use fusion or fission reactions. ... What I was getting at is that YOU do not know what a bolt round does with the deuterium. Yeah, that's what I stated. Go back and read how I listed off a bunch of things listing what could be done with the deuterium. You're attempting to belittle MY argument by running off a tangent based upon a single example of what a bolt could do with deuterium. Give me a source explaining the precise activity involved with the deuterium or you're stuck making up explosive yields. Because we do not know, and considering the reactions described in battles do NOT fit the strength of a 40mm machine gun, we can assume that it's MUCH weaker. The reason C4 is more desirable over dynamite is because you can mold it and place as much needed substances for the explosion. Dynamite on the other hand requires a set amount (set by the number of sticks). C4 can be cut, molded like clay, and won't be initiated via shock, like other explosives. Otherwise, both will have the same amount of blast radius. Where did you get this 'fact'? There's a difference between psykers and magic. Psykers are the traditional psychic powers trope, but Tzeetch is not the god of psykers. Again, he is the lord of SORCERY. It is stated with that direct wording. Go look it up. Yeah, until the fact that Games Workshop thought they were so silly that they scrapped them. Can you explain Space Elves? Or how about fungus evolving into sentient orks that all have latent psychic powers? How about a parallel dimension that is analogous to Hell, and has monstrous demons that apparently look exactly like their Warhammer Fantasy counterpart? Tzeentch is not the lord over psykers. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tzeentch The impossible very much exists. Can 2 + 2 = 5? Can a triangle have 2 sides? Can you make an impossible figure? If you understand core concepts to their very base level, you can see some things as impossible. Take for example of a lightning gun. They are impossible (to the sense that you can aim it at anything) as electrons move on to atoms with lesser electrons. It is the concept of equilibrium. So, are you stating that everyone kills everyone with grenades? You're picking at very thin straws here. Troops carry only 1-2 grenades AT MOST. Space Marines don't even have pockets. I don't even know where they put their clips. Most likely they stand next to cache boxes to reload. Frag grenades aren't even that efficient as bullets themselves. You can do all the research you want. It's the same reason why cooking a bullet won't be as powerful as shooting the bullet, since bullets move on the premise of controlled explosion (gases trapped in the barrel push the bullet out), whereas grenades don't have that control. Secondly, the blast radius is extremely irregular and wouldn't blanket every degree of its surroundings. Take a ball, and pretend there are rays moving out from every direction. Now, imagine the surface or internal area has a limited amount of shrapnel. Now limit the amount rays for each individual shrapnel. The wider it moves out, the more space occurs in between each shrapnel. Now imagine it on the floor and remove all rays that point downward. Now imagine replicators all at ground level, so imagine more of the ray moving upwards to be useless. They work much better against standard infantry as they are much TALLER than the grenade, and therefore have a greater surface area to be hit. The efficiency versus the replicators have been diminished to a marginal percent. I see you're the first to resort to ad hominem. You cannot imagine how many times I've deleted mine. Every time you use it, it makes your credibility shrink even more. Tyranids on the other hand are tall, and were easy to mow down. Replicators on the other hand are ground level, making it hard for one to shoot waves, as when you aim, you arc and hit the floor. With Tyranids, you could shoot straight and constantly hit them.The only way you could achieve that with Space Marines if if they places there gun sideways onto the floor. I imagine that to be a funny scene. And I'm pretty sure it didn't take a zoanthrope for every single librarian. Librarians are definitely susceptible to non-psychic enemies. Don't make them out to be 'lightsaber vs blaster'. Alright, how about you prove bolters can blow up naquadah? Or prove that psykers can affect naquadah. Yeah, I could make a whole list of things you'd have to prove. That would be impossible to compare two universes then. Instead, we move on the premise that if it works within its native universe to be affective against a certain property, we can assume that all properties are affected. Just saying it's a different kind of metal or whatnot is non-valid. I could use the same argument against you. Replicator spray works against all metals whether you like it or not. I already proved that it can work against superior metals like Naquadah, that would put ceramite to shame. And what the heck does "penetrate force shields and not..." even mean? That sentence appears irrelevant and is syntactically incorrect to the point of making it non-salvageable. The Kull Warrior armor is described as a two piece. The internal mail is much like a woven Kevlar, and the outer piece is a hard non-metallic armor that absorbs energy. Both are non-metal, yet were affected by Replicator spray. You need to prove why the replicators wouldn't be able to degrade ceramite and adamantium. I put forward a proposition of absolute properties, wheres you ask for individual proofs. Again, I could move to the proposition of asking what makes you think Imperium weapons can affect Replicators. Warhammer 40k IS entirely plot device. Gods? Warp? Star eating demons? Space Marines that have shown never to lose? Yeah, because I bring a guy to the table that has the same magical properties, you've already become flustered. If you want to admit they are an invincible plot device, then just concede that Warhammer 40k would lose because of that point. Plasteel is a mix of plastic and steel. It's that obvious in the name. I looked it up, and that's what it is. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plasteel Your credibility is going down faster than the Titanic. Yeah, because they eat, sleep, and do everything inside their battle armor. I'm sure each and every one of them is capable of taking up arms (excluding children and old ones), but I doubt they would be combat ready when a replicator spike impacts the craft world and begins creeping inside the homes for whatever scraps of metal available (I doubt you can make clothing, stoves, etc all out of wraithbone). And during that time, they would kill every eldar in their home. Sure it won't kill them all, but it would cripple them to avoid Replicators in the future. Tyranids only eat the top crust (bio-matter) of every planet, how inefficient of them. They leave over 98% of the planet untouched. Replicators are more efficient, as planets and asteroids are made of more metals than carbon-based matter. There are theories the Machine God is the Void Dragon. Besides being a theory, so is the fact that the Machine God even really exists. Replicators don't think for themselves. They are machines that have objectives, much like you program a computer to do simple tasks. Is your computer self-aware? Replicators are remorseless machines that seek only two objectives: 1) Replicate 2) Assimilate advanced technology By your logic, they are untouchable by the C'tan.
It's hard to know what the power of bolters is. If you go by the actual game (which is arguably the "best" source of information, since it's the core of the franchise and all the novels etc. are based around it) then a bolt has only a 2/3 chance of killing a normal unarmored human if it hits them. That would put it at way less than even a 40 mm grenade. But then again, if you look at the drawings the bolts appear to be at least the size of a D battery. I could be wrong, but as I recall the ultramarines were merely spearheading/directing the battle, and most of the fighting was done by the imperial guard and imperial navy.
Not really. You can make a nuclear weapon with as low a yield as you like. It's just a matter of controlling what percentage of its nuclear fuel gets involved in the reaction. If you want, you can make a nuclear weapon with no more power than an equal amount of conventional explosives, although it would be a big waste of uranium or plutonium. No, actually a single fission event has a lot more energy than a single fusion event. One deuterium-tritium fusion releases about 17 MeV, one uranium nucleus fissioning releases about 200 MeV. But I agree with you that bolters aren't nuclear.
That 2/3rds chance has nothing to do with armor. The bolt pierces the armor of an imperial guardsmen automatically in the game. The 2/3 is more of if the spacemarine hit the guardsmen. The Space marines did all of the fighting on ultramar, they dont have an imperial guard units. Chapter recruiting planets are exempt from having an imperial guard unit on the planet. They are protected by the chapter Also TW Scott, replicators cant pierce shields There was an episode of SG-1 where SG-1 was attacking anubis's main ship. Long story short, the replicators show up, take over the ship. So SG-1 programs it to crash into a planet. We all know that the SG-1 team escaped and mission success blah blah blah. But right before it crashed, you saw Anubis in the control room, and there was an orangish shield in the shape of a cube around him. And there were like 50 replicators crawling all around the shield and they were helpless. And of course Anubis looked pretty pissed when he saw he was on a crash course. The moral of the story, replicators cant do anything against ships. And also, WH40k has something like the replicators. The necrons have these little robots that attack in such swarms they blot out the sky. And they have little lasers powerful enough to actually have a chance at knocking out a shield. and theyve got number too.
I haven't played since 2nd edition rules, so it might be different now, but under those rules after a bolter hits and before the target makes an armor save roll, the attacker has to roll to see if it hit inflicts a killing wound. Against most humans a bolter would wound on a 3+, implying that you had a 1/3 chance of surviving a bolter hit. That would make it along the lines of a large-caliber rifle, not a 40 mm grenade. The 40k wiki says that the marines held Macragge with the help of the local planetary army and Titans from the Legio Praetor, and even then they were only able to hold out until a large fleet from the imperial navy arrived to wipe out the tyranids. That matches what I remember from the fiction, where the ultramarines were mainly acting as strategists and elite "troubleshooting" units that ran to wherever the battle was most intense. Anyway, the Ultramarines certainly didn't defeat the entire hive fleet by themselves. Over 200 imperial navy ships were destroyed in the battle at Macragge. The ultramarines don't have anything close to that many ships.
Sorry dude but the official story which ive read like a million times is in the codex of the space marines. That is the most accurate story What happened is that the 1st company of the space mariens held off the tyranids while the rest of the chapter was heading to Macragge. And in the end fought to the last men and was whiped out. There was no account of the Imperial navy coming to the rescue (no surprise there). Also, the battle of Macragge was something like the battle of the Buldge in the ways of how the tyranids surrounded it and needed the planet strategically. The 1st company of veterans were the people guarding Macrage. And metaphorically speaking, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and i think 7th companies were Patton.
