Remember Fort Ross: the stolen California from Russia

Discussion in 'History' started by youreyes, Nov 9, 2014.

  1. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    California gained its roots from Russians. From Kodiak Island to Bodiga Bay to Port Rumiantsev and finally to Port Ross. This is the path that Russia has established California with the help of Alaskan natives. Meanwhile arriving from the West the scavengers and murderers of Indian tribes, came the whats now called North Americans.

    Fort Ross, the beauty and a gem of the birth of California was achieved by Ivan Kuskov. Threatened later by John Sutter, the Russian colonists had to leave the land. But the heart of Russia beating in the baby of what is now is California, is apparent.

    Listen to this beauty:

    http://www.fortross.org/

    Through Love, Love from Russia, California was formed...but later overrun by corruption and dishonesty. Still love runs in veins of California even now.

    Remember the birth of California, celebrate with us by voting for Miss Russian California:

    http://www.russianamericanmedia.com/our-events/miss-russian-california/

     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
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  3. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    Here's an idea. Vladamir could encourage all the ethnic Russians in California to form a secessionist militia. They will have the hearts and minds of every true Californian-Russian who prefers Russian language and culture and rule from Moscow to the status quo. Russia could cut off all its exports to California. Best part: the separatists could wave around the state flag which already has a bear and a red commie star on it.

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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Remember the Native American Tribes that lived there and OWNED California before the Russians ever set foot on the soil, if they ever did.


    The original inhabitants of the area that is now California included:

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    The Achumawi tribe

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    The Atsugewi tribe

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    The Cahuilla tribe

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    The Chemehuevi tribe

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    The Chilula tribe

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    The Chimariko tribe

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    The Chumash tribe

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    The Cocopah tribe

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    The Ohlone (Costanoan) tribe

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    The Cupeno tribe

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    The Diegueno (Kumeyaay) tribe

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    The Esselen tribe

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    The Gabrielino (Tongva) tribe

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    The Halchidhoma tribe

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    The Hupa tribe

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    The Juaneno trib

    There were more...

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...moLgDg&usg=AFQjCNHNF0_dKQ28Ew8uBDb5F-fq6L8wBA
     
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  7. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Same thing, of course, with the original 13 colonies, the so called Louisiana Purchase & all the land stolen from Mexico.
     
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Native Americans were living in that area for over 10,000 years, way before the Mexicans who were Spanish from Spain.
     
  9. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. That's why I said "Same thing".
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Most of the Mexicans were - and are, in the relevant regions - genetically Red. The colonization of current Mexico by the Spanish (and interior NA by the French) followed a pattern completely different from that of the current US by Britain - Spain sent a few aristocrats and their minions to rule over large tracts of land populated by "natives"; Britain (having, possibly, learned from its Irish and Scottish experiences) followed some of Machiavelli's advice, and sent its own ordinary citizenry and its own government to populate its newly annexed territory. Had they moved the monarchy and financial establishment as well (as Machiavelli advised) England might be the North American power to this day.

    The Russians have a terrible reputation among the Red locals up and down the Pacific coast and into Alaska. There's a reason Miss California Russian there is blonde and blue-eyed, and there is no "back to Mother Russia" movement among the Reds that Russia ruled.
     
  11. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    thats a nice personal POV, where is the proof? Fort Ross has been the most peaceful establishment and had no conflicts among the natives, unlike the American white settlers that simply killed them all off.
     
  12. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    Question: how long was the Russian settlement of western North America in terms of years? Another question, as 'harmless' as this Russian settlement was, would they not have spread contagion among the native Americans, same as other Europeans did on the east coast, and in south and central America?
     
  13. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    the so called "contagion" excuse USA uses is pathetic. The USA excuse is, "we did not kill those Indians, they got infected by our germs and all died rather nicely".
     
  14. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    598
    I don't believe they use the fact that so many natives died from contagion as an excuse for anything. You use "quotation marks" as if someone actually ever said that. Can you cite your source.

    More to the point, you have not answered either of my questions, and one is really very easy.
    1.How long was the Russian settlement of western North America in terms of years?
    2.As 'harmless' as this Russian settlement was, would they not have spread contagion among the native Americans, same as other Europeans did on the east coast, and in south and central America?

    Thank you.
     
  15. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    That is a ferkin brilliant idea.
     
  16. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    California Girls
     
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  17. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    That Fresno's always on my my my my my mind!
     
  18. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    settlments are real easily peaceful when their failures. there is a reason the russian sold fort ross like they sold alaska
     
  19. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Got a question for y'all.

    If the "white man" had never invaded these continents... America, Australia, etc... what do you think they'd look like now?
     
  20. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    Good question, and I think it's fine you are hijacking this thread because youreyes seems to have slunk away in embarrassment on this one after I compared California to the Ukraine.

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    Before I answer, I want to point out that old Christoforo Colombo (to use the Genovese form of his name) was a man obsessed. You probably know that it was actually common knowledge in his day that the Earth was round, and I don't even know if his 'long-way-round' trade route to Asia was an original idea, although it may have been. And of course, the Europeans, least of all our friend Colombo, had not a clue that the Americas were over there. Yes, the man was obsessed and he worked for years like the maniac he was to get funding for his voyage. My point is: the European discovery of the Americas did not have to happen in 1492. Yes the various Western Euro peoples were seafarers and they would have stumbled upon the Americas eventually in a hundred, two, three or four centuries more, and there are the stories of the Vikings, the Irish and Basque wandering there, but those three never 'did' anything with it like the Spanish have.

    I have read sci-fi novels where the Aztecs invent the telephone and steam ships (Robert Silverberg), but really it seems absurd to think any of the native Americans could go from stone age to industrialization in 400 years with no good impetus. They would have likely just continued as they had for the last 100,000 years over there in their very own hemisphere. And so whitey would have come not sooner, but later with his guns and diseases. Maybe youreyes is on the right track, it could have been the Russians who settled America from the northwest. That certainly would have made for an interesting alternative history. They're encroachment would have been slower (look how even today they are hardly into Siberia) so maybe the tribes would have had a better chance of adapting to the changing situation and defended themselves better. Yes, it certainly is a fascinating possibility to speculate upon.

    As for Australia, you know England only took it on as a penal colony because they couldn't dump convicts in America after independence. So without crazy Christoforo and the belated exploitation of the Americas, perhaps Australia 2014 would be but a bigger, drier version of Papua New Guinea with stone-age tribes recently corrupted with firewater and bakky. Again, there's no reason to think they would have changed their technology level in these past few centuries with no impetus when they were doing quite nicely for 40,000 years with stone tools. Too bad.
     
  21. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    It wasn't a "good question", at all.
    They'd look much the same, with a different cultural basis.
    For exactly the reasons you covered above; without "invasion", they'd still be stone age cultures.

    The hatred for the "white man", and his colonising ways, is only a result of resentment that someone else (read: whichever culture you identify with) didn't get there first.

    Evolution is what it is. Social or otherwise.
     
  22. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Who stole the land from Native Americans.
     
  23. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Most of the DNA results show Native Americans, who were in the USA first, to have asian decent not european. So when everyone says that they came from Russia that's not true.


    For two decades, researchers have been using a growing volume of genetic data to debate whether ancestors of Native Americans emigrated to the New World in one wave or successive waves, or from one ancestral Asian population or a number of different populations.

    Now, after painstakingly comparing DNA samples from people in dozens of modern-day Native American and Eurasian groups, an international team of scientists thinks it can put the matter to rest: Virtually without exception the new evidence supports the single ancestral population theory.

    “Our work provides strong evidence that, in general, Native Americans are more closely related to each other than to any other existing Asian populations, except those that live at the very edge of the Bering Strait,” said Kari Britt Schroeder, a lecturer at the University of California, Davis, and the first author on the paper describing the study.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...sIKACw&usg=AFQjCNEES42GOmizD0xeF5UoOTLLsOtNtQ
     

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