Religious people aren't built for logical debate.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by universaldistress, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    There is no mid-point if infinity is actual.

    Both infinities, of the largest and the smallest, would have equal extent, and so there would always be an exact mid-point. The cosmos has neither a ceiling nor a floor, but it has a middle.
     
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  3. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    The above has been the same problem I have been running around in my head. I gave up on finding the answer. How can infinity be created by an agent of intelligence. But now I think I have a model that could work. I am writing a book you see. It's fiction, but it will build this idea; I think i may have just decided on the finale of book 6. I am writing a paper as well but I am not so sure how these types of musings are received into publication, are you?

    You could put the writings here for evaluation and refinement. Victor Stenger got into publication by first becoming a notable physicist, writing about that, and then extending into atheism via science, with lots of facts.

    There's always Amazon, and createspace.com will put your book there for nearly free (you have to buy a cheap proof copy, which you would want to have anyway). They even give a free ISBN. It's also true that about 6000 books come out every day now.
     
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  5. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't it funny how just thinking about stuff even if it is against your own, can trigger a new understanding in ones-own already direction?

    Yes, that's why I search every dark alley, even supposed dead-ends, trying to go where the facts lead, with no inherent bias steering me away.
     
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  7. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Ok so we are calling God a creator of everything. Even though a subjective god is possible, even for this universe's creation.

    But what of the lack of our understanding? Maybe we just don't get it? The concept?

    I agree with the infinity you describe, though I think I now have a mode that works for a creator/system of All. Wish I could share it but it is going to be book 6 I think

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    It isn't related to our discussion but part of my independent framework.
     
  8. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't want to clog up your thread, but you like these avenues of inspiration, so how about this?

    Einstein’s 4D ‘block universe’ (or 4D space-time), a hypercube externally, is internally as an infinite number of infinite 3D spaces stacked upon one another, which can be called the 4D hypercube. It’s hard to visualize 4D, but one can generalize it from imagining a stacking of infinite 3D ‘pancakes’. So, in seeing this 4D hypercube of 3D spaces, one can visualize that time is the difference of space(s), an index, it also serving as both motion and charge.

    The converse is that space is the difference of time, this being distance. Energy/mass is basically curved space. Space is physical, but not material. 3D space is infinite and is therefore the bounding “surface” of the contained and finite 4D hypercube.

    The speed of light, 'c', is really more than than the distance/time dimensional units, but is a reduction to that, via…

    the external 4D hypercube, distance^4, divided by internal 3D space-time, time*distance^3, which results in 'c', as reduced, to distance/time, in dimensional units.
     
  9. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    I will publish my fiction in the conventional way. Well that is my aim. Depends on that avenue being a success or not that will be my next step. Though book is still in planning. I am nearly of the understanding to write it, in a writers skill sense. Bout 75,000 at the moment.

    The paper will have to be a journal or magazine of some sort? I though that could be the convention though wondered what you felt? Is this stuff science, or do I go fro something more speculative?
     
  10. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    I do not agree with this conceptually. No beginning, no end, no middle (for me

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    ) There is no extent as there is no measurement of infinity.
     
  11. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Don't think anyone else is coming here for a while anyway lol.
     
  12. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I'd have to say that 'God' has to be the source, origin, and creator of everything but Himself, or he wouldn't be God, but just some smart alien who was able to scientifically terraform a moon or a planet, or more. We, too, may get to that stage of intelligence, but you can see it's at the complete opposite end of the spectrum from simple and the small. Yet, all is/was forever and also of infinite extent, and so this has already happened somewhere, sometime, again and again, if it is at all possible, which it would seem to be.
     
  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. If something is infinite in extent then anywhere you pick is the "middle" since there's just as much on either "side" from that spot as there is at any other.
    You can't say "To my left lies 1/4 of infinity and to my right is 3/4 of it..."
     
  14. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    Well, at least if all sizes are indeed relative, infinitely, we still have a clear ordering to sizes in our finite realm.

    Also, if it were to turn out that the Planck size is really the limit of the small, then this would put 'size' an an absolute scale, which is fine, although the size of the largest would still be unbounded.

    Anyway, I don't think it is of direct importance to my theory, but we don't seem to be able to have our being exist at the size of Planck or smaller, nor as really humongous guys.
     
  15. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    This seems like a subjective viewpoint, like it is trying to find a place to view from, measure from. But to understand infinity one has to see it all at once in its entirety.
     
  16. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    I could go with the center of All being everywhere, as well as the All being shapeless, since no boundary, and a point also being shapeless, assuming no boundary there either.

    Nothing, everything, unbounded duration and extent all seem to have to be in the package together, along with with no special time or place, no special anything at all. And so we get away from having to account for specific locations in times for any happenings, for there can be no accounting for the causeless.
     
  17. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    No, there is no middle. Middle is a concept of a measurable area. Infinity is immeasurable hence no middle (for me I might add

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    )
     
  18. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    That's what I said!

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    Wherever you pick on an infinite line you have equal amounts on either side: isn't that a reasonable definition of "middle"?
     
  19. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    Or it is everywhere, but let's not worry about 'middle' anymore, as that is not in the main.
     
  20. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    This seems coloured by evidence. Infinity is not.

    If there is a limit on the planck size then all bets are off. Infinity is infinite. No boundary.
     
  21. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Anything else is impossible if infinity is infinite?
     
  22. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Do not bias oneself. Just flow with it.

    No centre. Things still occur within. You are still trying to quantify/account for. Infinity is unquantifiable?
     
  23. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    there is no amount. infinity has no amount
     

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