Religious people aren't built for logical debate.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by universaldistress, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    I propose -not 100% decided on- that when people mix religious ideas with logic, science, factual debate they fudge up the whole experience for everyone else. And further, the majority of illogical thought that people proffer, when questioned, will expose religious thought bubbling away underneath.

    Should religious people feel guilty, or does it keep the scientists needfully on their toes?
     
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  3. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I don't think anyone should feel guilty, so long as they're sufficiently benign in outlook.

    But the religious have as much right to logic as anyone else.
     
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  5. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Do they have a right to fudge it up with illogic?
     
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  7. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Nope.
     
  8. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Freedom of speech?
     
  9. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Freedom of speech covers dumb?

    Well, I guess so. But in the private sphere, there's no reason to protect illogic.
     
  10. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Let us look at a doctor that is a religious person. They don't bring their religion into the operating room with them when they operate on a man who committed murder and is serving a life sentence for it. They only are going to try and do what they can to save the man during the operation, not bringing in their religion when doing so. They also learned about their practice at a college that wasn't religious as well but only visited their respected church when they could to keep up with their church.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  11. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    since well over 60% of all key figures within the various branches of philosophy allude to the transcendental/god, I think you've fudged something up in your pursuit of so-called logical, scientific, factual debate.

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  12. jmpet Valued Senior Member

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    I can debate you religously, but then again my personal religion is not based on dogma. I think that's where your conflict is.
     
  13. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    the logic of religion is not based on science,science keeps trying to corner religion into answering questions based on sciences logic..it doesn't work..

    there is a logic when it comes to religion, but it is a belief based logic..IE if God is like this, then he won't do that..

    to give some sort of validity to my claim see my conversations with CHI..he accepted my logic when it comes to god..because he understood God the way i do..
     
  14. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Statistics? You should know better.

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2009/12/what_philosophe.html

    My statistics kick your statistics's [sic] arse (yes, "arse" - I'm Australian).

    "Seventy-three percent of the philosophers surveyed said they accepted or leaned towards atheism, while only 15 percent accepted or leaned toward the idea of God."
     
  15. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    That is fine, but I suspect said doctor fosters illogical thought, like believing in a maybe?
     
  16. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Philosophy is the pursuit of any maybe. Maybes can be expored with logic, but they are still maybes?
     
  17. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    I see your point and almost buy it but, religion is a set of "beliefs" reliant on maybes. For one to believe doesn't one need more?
     
  18. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    "log·ic
       /ˈlɒdʒɪk/ Show Spelled[loj-ik] Show IPA
    –noun
    1.
    the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference. "

    Ok, any area of study can purport its own logic, but I was kind of assuming meaning 1.

    I would say that the logic of religion isn't logical under meaning 1. But this is just terminology.

    Logic (as in meaning 1) is assailed by people who half follow it except when their religion (personal or otherwise) is threatened/enforced? I hold no firm beliefs as such. I have theories, and entertain other peoples ideas, but do not fix down myself. I do not wish to be picked off, or pick off anyone else. I feel religious people of all creeds would do well to ponder on this.
     
  19. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    You have cited your source so we will have to go with your's I feel, though is the stat relevant to the debate?
     
  20. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    It depends on what the topic of conversation is. If people are discussing automobile mechanics, then introducing religious ideas would generally be inappropriate and detract from the subject at hand.

    But on a board labeled 'religion' in a hierarchy called 'philosophy' on a board called 'Sciforums', I'd assume that the original intention was to host intelligent and informed conversation about the philosophy of religion.
    That's almost certainly false. It might be more accurate to say that much of the religion discussion on Sciforums, and on pretty much every forum where participation isn't restricted to people with educations in the subject, often generates more heat than light.

    It's a laypeople's board. That's both a good thing and a bad thing. On one hand it gives people exposure to philosophizing and experience in generating and defending their ideas in a non-threatening atmosphere. That's tremendously valuable. But on the other hand, it's often those least adroit at argument who are loudest and display the most attitude in threads. That happens on internet discussion boards on every subject, it isn't unique to religion by any means. But religion is a subject that many people feel very strongly about, pro and con, and a subject about which everyone has views and thinks that they're an expert.

    It works both ways.

    Atheists are occasionally so contemptuous and dismissive of "religion" that they believe that there's nothing to it that deserves any serious study. As a result, their understanding of the breadth and depth of human religiosity consists of little more than a caricature, perhaps accompanied by some insufferable attitude.
     
  21. universaldistress Extravagantly Introverted ... Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, I'm listening.

    I don't believe this thread moves away from the essence of this board? I believe it is relevant. Furthermore I feel there is no stipulation limiting discussion to the philosophy of religion? Any thread that quests within a religion related topic is justified?

    Almost certainly? I did say majority, and I only proposed, I made no claims. Without a stat (that would be hard nigh impossible to acquire) this one is down to logic I think. . .

    I agree. I always choose my word carefully, and follow what I like to think of as universal logic, though I admit it is almost certainly deeply personal (life is interesting).



    I agree, it isn't black and white, nor am I. Just thought it would make a good thread.

    Oh yes, I think I like you. Don't just sit on the fence but build a jeep to move around in, no fixed abode. Great stuff (no sarcasm).

    Do you hold any meaningful affiliations dear, in a theological sense?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  22. Saquist Banned Banned

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    The reality is when ever you mix your desires with logic it fouls up a debate.
    Science is guilt to justifying itself with infinite theories and religion is guilt is often guilty of ignoring what has been discovered.

    What is science?
    Science is study/observation and analysis but it does not always lead to the right conclusion. So studying something can lead to an nonobjective conclusion. In other words, Science isn't necessarily logic.
     
  23. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know that??
     

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