Religion? What for?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by jayleew, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    It seems like we can categorize folks into boxes so we can decide what purpose religion serves.

    A) We have the folks who need it and should participate in it.
    These are the folks like my wife. They have issues that cannot be resolved with one-on-one counseling, or just do not learn that way, or refuse to learn that way.
    B) We have the folks who need it and should not participate in it.
    These are the fanatics who abuse the mechanics of the religion to get what they want or as a crutch.
    C) We have the folks who don't need it, and are fed it.
    These are the folks who are brought up with religion and decide they do not need it and function normally and live a "good" life.
    D) Lastly, we have the folks who don't need it, and are not fed it.
    These are the folks who never participate in religious activities ever, and function normally and live a "good" life.

    There probably are more granular categories, but i'll just define the 4.

    Given that we have different groups of people, can we, how can we, or should we seek to eliminate religion?

    More importantly, if we should not eliminate religion then how can group C and D live free from persecution and live peacefully with groups A and B?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,725
    No, no more than we should seek to eliminate video games or poker clubs. We should also not seek to push it. Let people make up their own minds.

    Same way groups A and B live free from persecution from groups C and D - mutual respect.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    I don't believe the elimination of religion is possible. There will likely always be a frontier for the religious to retreat to. We have posters who are engaging in such delusion now; Magical Realist is currently positing that there is a "higher order" to the universe, and, therefore, meaning. It's partly ignorance on his part, but it's also the fact that we don't have all the answers. Loons and kooks and idiots will always have gaps--whether in their own education or in our understanding--to place their god (or god stand-in).

    The same way they live free from persecution and live peacefully here in the US. By giving primacy to secularism.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,001
    Why is it that people ''who don't need it'' are the only ones who can ''function normally and live a good life''?

    jan.
     
  8. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    Messages:
    16,330
    so does football, money, cars, real estate, sex, philosophy, gardening, anthropology, income brackets, political affiliation, nationality, age, occupation, disease, bicycle riding, surfing, management, computers, language, newspapers, literature, hairstyles and atheism.

    Did I leave anything out?
     
  9. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,862
    Social groups have been around for many thousands of years and religions are just another social group. Humans enjoy interacting with others of their same ilk and find ways to bring them together through many different ways.
     
  10. arauca Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,564
    You can keep your wisdom for yourself if religion should be eliminated .
    Before religion will be terminated you will be terminated first . Josef Stalin and Wladimir Ulianow wanted terminate religion and they are buried for close to one century.
    Tell me you will replace religion with Atheism , were there is no fear of God . Take a trip to Russia and you will see how well the faith to God is growing . Even Putin former KBG is a believer in God and went to a pilgrimage to Jerusalem.
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,001
    Religion is part of humanity. Most humans if not all, are religious, they're just not necessarily religious about God.

    jan.
     
  12. arauca Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,564

    Can you tell me How Buddhism been a philosophy ended up been a religion and why
     
  13. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    There are two sides of the brain. Religion helps to develop the right brain. Science helps to develop the left brain. The real question is what is the purpose for religion if half a brain is all we need in liberal culture?

    Interestingly, when humans were more self reliant, as a whole, such as during the American pioneer days, religion was more popular than today. With the advent of social dependency, which is the heart of modern liberalism, religion began to decline.

    Religion is still popular in poor countries, because these countries don't have the logistics for dependency, that is possible in richer countries. They can't get automatic cells phones but would be happy with clean water. The poor have to remain self reliance, under harsh conditions, by default. They need the right brain with religion providing a gateway.

    Maybe another way to word the question is what is the need for religion in a culture based on dependency? If you word it that way, it may not be needed if culture plays the role of right brain for you.

    There is a logic for this. Since religion is more right brained, which is integral or 3-D, it is easier to maintain self reliance since one has the brain capability to integrate, even within the unknown. Poor countries can't depend on formal education to memorize stuff. They need to be more self reliant, with limited education, where the world is not static. In western culture, you can memorize your way through a culture where things are more fixed. The left brain is all you need for 90% of the tasks.

    An interesting intellectual experiment would be what would happen if culture was disrupted such that social dependency was disrupted. The more self reliant would continue to function by molding the environment. It the water supply was contaminated, there are ways to get fresh water with string and duct tape. Those who memorized, turn the knob on the faucet to get water, would be lost and need to seek out a right brainer to teach the new procedure or directly give them resources. Once the left brain herd is all set up by the self reliant making it possible, they tend to forget only half a brain is not always enough.
     
  14. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    Jan playing with terms again.
     
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    51,741
    So religion is a crutch for societies that don't give a crap? That's probably true, although I would argue that early American society included many collective social institutions, like the town square, the town meeting hall, common grazing areas, and poor houses.
     
  16. IfIonlyhadabrain Registered Member

    Messages:
    84
    I reject this framework. It is posited on the presupposition that religion is superfluous.
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    You know something? Religion is there so that you can have something to fret about! Imagine if you'd have nothing to fret about! Huh. That'd be bad, wouldn't it.
     
  18. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    What's wrong with people being separated?

    Surely there are many people you are separated from and prefer to stay separated from.
     
  19. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    What wisdom? I'm asking questions:

    Given that we have different people with varying degrees of belief, can we, how can we, or should we seek to eliminate religion?
    More importantly, if we should not eliminate religion then how can atheists live free from persecution and live peacefully with theists?

    If what you are saying is true would I be shot going to Russia asking these questions?

    I think there are plenty of theists who want to "terminate" me, as you put it. Just, as there are plenty of atheists who want to terminate a theist. If you don't understand, then you are a fanatic theist.
     
  20. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    Is it not? Can you explain why it isn't superfluous?
     
  21. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    If I had nothing to fret about sounds like a good thing. It is more fear that I am questioning religion. I'm scared of people who think they have everything figured out enough to where they would make a conscious decision to end someone's life over their belief in God. Like if they heard an atheist say this or that about their God, and they pull out there gun and shoot someone. It is wrong to kill, and that is the problem I have with God to begin with who wants to commit premeditated murder of innocent children.
     
  22. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    Sort of like how these forums exist for you to make clumsy attempts at sarcastic humor, and to assert superiority over others.
     
  23. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    Why are you scared of that? - If not precisely because you quite firmly believe that life as you know it so far cannot possibly be all there is to life.


    You're setting yourself up for a double bind, conflating two things: You swing from belief that God of Christianity exists (so your fear of the Christian idea of God is justified!), to the belief that there is no God whatsoever (so that you feel justified doing your own thing, not abiding by Christian doctrine).

    IOW:
    1. what you feel for real, is fear;
    2. then you try to justify that fear, and you do so by taking for granted that the Christian idea of God is true;
    3. then, considering some absurdities and atrocities of the Christian idea of God, you abandon that idea of God;
    4. your fear nevertheless persists, it doesn't go away with your abandonment of the Christian idea of God (if your fear would truly be caused or strongly correlated with Christian notions of God, the fear would go away once you renounce those Christian notions);
    5. back to step 2, and down in a vicious circle.

    IOW, you need to find another justification or explanation for your fear, one that will not tie you into a vicious circle like that above.

    You might actually feel afraid for very good reasons, and it might have nothing at all to do with Christians or God or other people, but primarily with the things that you yourself do or don't do.
     

Share This Page