(Religion=Delusion) = Delusion

I think if you address the cultural/moral issues presented in the OP, it will be difficult to determine how they don't

erm
did you go further than the first paragraph of the OP?

 

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Its difficult to see how your contributions can be viewed as controversial unless you bear some support for the theistic contribution of equality, etc.

 

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the same place religious ethics came from, ie what is nessary to bind the tribe into a cohesive sociaty. no nessaty for god at all

 

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Nasor

I guess it depends whether you want to accept atheist hate sites or theological/linguistic/cultural studies as one's source for being informed.

and where did they get their philosophy from?
the backs of breakfast cereal packets?

Well as for the norse, they are not celebrated as great upholders of moral virtue ... and neither are were their cultural achievements longstanding, so I'm not sure why you mention them. But regardless, whatever great things they achieved is certainly heavily steeped in metaphysical ideology.
As for the greeks, it was plato who launched an argument quite similar to yours, and he played a part in establishing something more in line with monotheistic accounts by focusing on the "chos" (or void) - the chos was explained as the cause of the greek pantheon - and so he goes on to talk about an absolute realm that houses absolute versions of what we find temporal examples of here etc etc

Just to speak in a very general sense, it might be convenient to talk of three general classes of theistic practices

• animism
• polytheism
• monotheism

anyway, there are very good reasons why you find practically no philosophy in animism, a little philosophy in polytheism and a lot of philosophy in monotheism, and also why quality of morals has a direct relationship with philosophy

well suppose you look at trees as they appear in visual arts
you can see how it is represented differently in different cultures

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From an outsiders point of view you could say that these things have nothing in common but from the view of person actually educated and familiar with the phenomena of trees and certain cultural influences its quite clear that the subject is the same.

In the same way, i think you would be hard pressed to find any professional academic involved in the field of studying theology who advocates that the nature of god is some sort of multi-fractured cultural development that develops independently (even atheists in the field opt for arguments that god fulfills certain primal/psychological needs, since it is just plainly too ridiculous to deny the issues of similarity)

 

Spidergoat

so obviously not all religions are equal (in the moral sense) - In other words you can expect very different moral outputs between animism, polytheism and monotheism - and of course you can analyze the grade even more intensely within each category.

The focus of the Op however was on what is prized as the highest moral ground of current society - equality - and how it is a theistic contribution, which is not at all unlike many other theistic contributions for improving the cultural fabric of society (eg art, architecture, literature, etc)

 

/takes a deep breath
:runaway:

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Assguard

yet there is no historical evidence for your claim of no necessity ....

(hence facetious ....etc etc)

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greenberg,

That would make them irrational, we can't have that.

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JaN.

 

Fahrenheit

its a generic all-inclusive argument by atheism

so what are the great cultural contributions of mermaids?
“

you can add faeries, orks, unicorns and satyrs too if you think it bolsters your argument
“

If we are social animals, its kind of ironic how that society always coalesces around theistic/metaphysical issues.
As for Aesops fables and Arabian nights, the theistic/cultural influences in them are more apparent and direct than the midday sun. (To say the least, I think you would have assigned yourself a very difficult task if you set out to explain how the morality/metaphysical concepts these works contain is somehow independent from the cultures they arose from ... ok maybe you could do it on sciforums, but amongst an educated forum, I doubt it)

so what does that tell you about the truth?
Its boring, uneventful, uninspiring?
I guess that would make communist russia the high point of our civilization.
Would you want to live there?

So all that is universally valuable in life has its roots in delusion?
I see ....
:crazy:

 

Crunchy Cat

thats a different argument than what atheists address in the OP
I think we have been here before
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=71536
feel free to rehash the thread, but not here, if you don't mind

and you can't see how different value foundations (cultivated by philosophy of course) will greatly determine the response to these two question?

so where did they get the idea of freedom from?
Burger King?

Your observation of what exactly?

 

Not many atheists hold the position that theists are just flat out crazy. I think many of them realize the behavior is quite natural. Anthropomorphics is a huge part of why that is.

 

yes
rather that they are deluded, have fantastic beliefs with no grounding in reality, etc etc

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It is good to see you admitting your error.

 

well at least Myles succeeds in transgressing Crunchy Cat's estimations of atheism

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what psychological need do you have to be equal with me?

 

Aside from the "no grounding in reality" part (reality does have profound aspects, normally termed "spiritual", that many theisms are grounded in to some extent) that is true, of course - and theists usually share that opinion about at least some other people's theisms, of course.

That is a common and basically normal aspect of human psychology. It is not particularly insane, and most atheists do not regard it as insanity.

 

Why would you care? Everyone's deluded about something. Atheists aren't going to hate you for it, hurt you for it, or otherwise discriminate against you for it.

 

We have identical needs. While we may differ in which ones are emphasized over others, we share the same list. A handful of them are:

* Security or safety.
* Effectiveness and control.
* Positive identity and self-esteem.
* Positive connection and esteem for and trust in others.
* Autonomy and self-trust.
* Comprehension of reality or world view.

 

maslow's hierarchy

 

so what psychological need do you have to be equal with me?

What need do you have that my level of security or safety is equal to yours
etc etc
?