Religion and women.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Jan 12, 2021.

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  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Why would you conclude such a stupid thing?
    The only implication to rape is verse 25.
    You are assuming to lay hold of of woman results only in rape. But it’s not, under any circumstance. Unless the man forces himself sexually upon her.
    But we know what happens to a man who forces himself on a woman. He alone is sentenced to death.
    Girls could be betrothed at an early age, and were for the most part under the jurisdiction of the parents, mainly father, or elder brother, until they were married. They didn’t just wander around. It was a completely different culture to nowadays. Unfortunately you don’t seem to appreciate that. You seem to think ancient times were like modern times.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So a theist does not believe in God?

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    Yes.
    Because for an atheist, there is no God, and he understands it from that perspective.
    If there is no God, one cannot believe.
    Like who?
    That is dumb.
    You assume you know what is true by thinking you can prove it to be true. But if you are averse to the truth as you are, your conclusions will always be wrong.
    No. I agree with scripture
    “Thou shalt not kill”
    It is you and your like-minds that disagree with scripture
    What do you mean by “equals”?
    It doesn’t take a particularly clean backyard to work atheists out. Observing their wicked traits is not a spiritual awakening. It is a trait that clearly expresses it self at certain times. Otherwise you can’t tell unless you know
    What is nasty about God killing evil lineages to stop them from creating anymore?
    That atheism!
    You can’t go any further than that.
    We are living in the application of “The age of reason” right now.
    Murder, mayhem, cancel, abominations, etc…. sanctioned
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  5. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Unless you think that accusations alone constitutes evidence, then nobody has.
    Baseless accusations is all you’ve pedalled.
    Aw!!! Poor you

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    It’s not clever enough to be a conspiracy.
    It’s just the standard of wickedness.
    Sanctioned murder, rape, robberies, lies, etc..
    It’s all out in the open
    What a dumb response!
    You could at least attempt to answer a question
    It’s interpreted by evil people, who hate God, and God’s creation. They have no love, so lying to serve their delusion is nothing to them. You should know.
    No. It implies holding her in a way that is sexual. Have you ever been held by a man in a sexual manner, but didn’t get raped (serious question)?
    Exactly.
    If she was married, she’d be committing adultery, which is an abomination. The act is a spiritual transgression which is passed on to her father, and generations to come. Just goes to show how fallen we have become in this age.
    No. If she was raped, she would still be innocent. No spiritual transgression.
    She liked being held by this man, and was party to it. So much so she had sex with him.
    Have you ever been in that position?
    Why not?
    Have ever hugged before having sex?
    Maybe that is yours and some others experience, but some women do give consent to rough sex, which may well include being held down. But you already know that. So what is your actual reason to think that verse implies rape?
    This just shows you don’t understand that culture. You seem to think those societies are like today’s society. You think you can use your current level of understanding to judge ancient cultures.
    You don’t get the culture, because you are viewing it entirely from an atheist, woke, radical-leftist perspective. Your arrogance can’t allow you understand why the culture is like the way it is
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  7. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Tiassa commented on your current, dumb behaviour. Thinking your dumbness was a performance because he “knows your smarter than this”. I asked what made him think you were performing. So I’m just pointing out to him that you’re not performing. This is what you’re actually about.
    Oh! So it is okay for you to say nasty stuff about me, but returning the gesture is an offence?
    How CCP of you!

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    What a hypocrite
    This is why I call you a liar.

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    Show where I said that
    Where?
    Liar!
    What is wrong with that quote?
    Please explain
    What’s wrong with giving hypothetical scenarios to explain a point?
    You still need to show where I excuse rape.
    Or is this just another one of your baseless accusation

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    Why not have a bash at answering. It would be interesting to hear your perspective
    What’s my history? That post?

    As I said, you are averse to the truth, and cannot be trusted.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No, a theist may not necessarily understand God. To claim otherwise is Hubris!
    True, but that does not mean atheists cannot understand the concept of God. Understanding something is the only acceptable way for rejecting the proposition.
    Like Hypatia, the first atheist woman astronomer, who was literally torn apart by theist priests .

    The Killing of Hypatia

    A fight over all things visible and invisible, featuring practical magic, empire, and terrible men.
    By Soraya Field Fiorio

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    Hypatia, by Julia Margaret Cameron, 1867. The J. Paul Getty Museum. Digital image courtesy of the Getty’s Open Content Program.
    https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/killing-hypatia
    No, Faith, belief without knowledge is dumb.
    I see, all knowledge based on proof is imaginary?
    Only belief without knowledge is proof of truth. Now you are just descending from the ridiculous into the insane.
    No, thou shalt not kill is a secular moral. But in scripture this command is a "negotiable" proposition.
    In scripture it means "Thou shalt not kill, except when God approves of it" and leaves it up to the believer when God approves of it. You cannot claim that history of Holy wars is imaginary.
    There you have it. That secular moral command does not exist in scripture and is why you are ignorant of that concept.
    Oh it takes a whole lot to clean out the theist backyard, some 3000 years worth of misunderstanding and prejudicial behavior.
    Because it isn't God doing the killing. It's humans doing the killing because God told them it was a good idea.

    Atheism recognize that "natural selection" is the scientifically accepted natural process for evolutionary processes. Any human interference in that process is strictly temporary and usually found to be detrimental in the larger scheme of things.
    No those are YOUR words; "A theist by dint of the designation believes in God , and while no man understand everything, a theist, by dint of designation understands God well enough to maintain his/her belief in Him."
    Sanctioned by God!
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    In the passage? Sure. Once again:

    Christian Standard Bible: If a man encounters a young woman, a virgin who is not engaged, takes hold of her and rapes her, and they are discovered . . .
    Holman Standard Bible: If a man encounters a young woman, a virgin who is not engaged, takes hold of her and rapes her, and they are discovered . . .
    God's Word translation: This is what you must do when a man rapes a virgin who isn't engaged. When the crime is discovered . . .
    International Standard Version: However, if a man meets a girl who isn't engaged to be married, and he seizes her, rapes her, and is later found out . . .
    NET Bible: Suppose a man comes across a virgin who is not engaged and overpowers and rapes her and they are discovered. . .
    ALL modern Bibles are translations. ALL of them. Any Bible you've ever read is a translation.

    So according to you, Bibles have nothing to do with the Bible. I bet you think that even makes sense.
    That's what translators do.

    If you ever went to college - see if you can get your money back.
     
  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    In most families I know:
    The women go to church
    the men don't

    ................
    is there some message/wisdom in that?
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    Can't hate what I don't believe in, Jan.

    Do you honestly think this is an appropriate question, Jan?

    What is wrong with you?

    *Raise eyebrows*

    Which is apparently worthy of being stoned to death...

    I would say the falling would have occurred from the point where it was deemed necessary by society to stone women (and men) to death for having sex outside of marriage, Jan.

    But you seem to think that we have fallen because society does not deem women to be objects who are owned by the men in their lives, from their father to their husbands... What does that say about you?
    Why are you so interested in my sex life Jan? You keep asking and frankly, just makes you look like a creepy pervert.

    Secondly, you seem to be arguing that if a woman enjoys sex outside of marriage, then that "spiritual transgression" is somehow worthy of death. Is that what you want society to get back to?

    3rd question in a single post about my sex life.

    Sexual harassment much?

    4th comment about my sex life.. You're on a creep roll now.. It's interesting that you only save this sort of behaviour for women.

    And I have already explained why that verse implies rape. Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again?

    Which is exactly the point, is it not? I mean, on some level, you do see what you just said, yes?

    Religions of today are still relying on and preaching texts that were written in ancient times and cultures, where women were chattels and owned by men, to today's society and particularly, applying those ancient and outdated and frankly horrific standards to women today. An underlying theme in those ancient cultures and societies which fed religious texts that is relied on today as a moral compass, is one of ownership culture.

    Please, enlighten me Jan. Why should we still be adhering to rules from an outdated and ancient culture where owning women was deemed normal?

    Hmm.. You are wading into a disagreement that has nothing to do with you and which you know nothing about.

    Jan, your misogyny and bigotry on this website is well known and on record. You want to take snipes about my personal life and my rape, that's on you, not me. Just as your repeated questions about my sex life is on you and simply serves to show just what kind of person you are.
    Here:

    Are you denying you said this?

    Does someone else have access to your account? Do you have selective amnesia? Short term memory loss? Or are those your words?

    Did you not read the quote that followed it. See, this is why you are a troll.. You keep asking the same questions over and over again, despite that evidence having already been provided.
    Here it is again:
    You victim blamed and victim shamed. What a woman wears has no bearing and is not the cause of her rape. Most men understand this. Why can't you?

    Oh wait, that's right. You're the misogynist who's pining for the days of old where women are stoned for shaming their father's.

    A fantasy as to when it could be acceptable to rape and murder a woman is now a hypothetical scenario to you?

    Do you have those often Jan?
    You literally came up with a fantasy and used it as an example of when rape and murdering women could be excused and be deemed acceptable in your eyes, and you literally said this:

    And you are asking me for proof of where you excuse rape?

    You don't see the issues with what you have said, do you?

    Please seek help. You are clearly a danger to women.

    I don't respect and admire rape, Jan.

    That's my perspective.

    Given your behaviour throughout this post, I can see how you have a problem with that.
    And you are a misogynistic perverted troll who sexually harassed women in this thread, as well as having a history of dreaming up "scenarios" of when it could be acceptable to rape and murder women.

    That's your history on this site.

    And it's on record.

    We're done. Because you have provided yourself with enough rope that it would be cruel of me to allow you to continue and frankly, I don't particularly enjoy talking to people who fantasises about when it would be acceptable to rape and murder women. Nor do I particularly wish to continue engaging with someone intent on sexually harassing me by asking me personal and intimate questions about my sex life.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Oh Jan (between you and me),

    From what I hear you must be a real animal in bed, desired by every woman who needs to be dominated.

    Go Jan!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And that is just so rare anymore. Rape is in the past, today there is only sinful consensual sex.
     
  14. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Yes you can.
    Yes.
    Unless your answer is no, you have first-hand proof that your whole understanding of those passages are mistaken.
    What a strange question.
    What do you find inappropriate about my line of questioning?
    For those people, at that time, in that place, yes.
    Maybe.
    In their society.
    It’s one thing to act out of ignorance, but it’s another thing to transgress what you know to be true.
    I’m not Bells.
    I want to know if you really think that being held by a man is either an act of rape, or consistently leads to rape.
    I don’t believe you.
    You’re just trying to score points
    Not just women Bells, men also.
    Asking a question is not harassment Bells.
    Falsely accusing someone of acts without offering any proof, or even a reasonable explanation is.
    Where did I comment on your sex life?
    Don’t you know that some women like rough sex.
    Because I think you’re not telling the truth.
    I’m going to assume that you have been held in a sexual embrace that didn’t lead to being raped, and therefore you have proved your own analysis wrong.
    Your whole understanding of those laws that were specifically written for those people, at that specific time, place, and circumstance, is totally mistaken, and misunderstood
    Then you should have no problem bringing up examples. Should you?
    Remember!
    An accusation by itself is not proof of evidence

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    What a victim you are.
    And for the record, I mentioned nothing about any rape encounters you may have had. I wasn’t even aware you had any. The only thing I remember was that you boyfriend/husband left you for another woman. You made that public knowledge.
    I do not care one iota about your sex life.
    You stated… “nightmarish scenario that they ever tell me they had been raped, I would not come out and say 'well, just because you say you've been raped, does not mean you were actually raped'..

    Now show where I said, or even implied this.
    It’s amazing how you can just lie like that. But unfortunately such bare-faced untruths are the norm in society now, so it doesn’t surprise me
    You have yet to show that I hate women.
    Remember, an accusation alone, is not evidence.
    If you cannot provide even a good explanation, then you are harassing me.

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    And we have a new false accusation on the table.

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    Okay…
    I see now that you are a pathological liar,
    and a dangerous person.
    Yes.
    Where is it?
    I know what I said, and why I said it.
    You seem to have distorted what I said, to justify your lying.
    Don’t you feel embarrassed?
    Like I said earlier…
    You are a dangerous person.
    You have no shame.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    What’s wrong with you people?

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    Don’t you know that it is wrong to make vile accusations at people without evidence, or a reasonable explanation?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Huh????
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly......huh??????
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I heard it from your own mouth. Your words are my witness.
     
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Write4U

    I guess the answer is no
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Where did I make a vile accusation? You consider a speculative comment, about what most men would consider a compliment, a vile accusation? In your book, rape is another one of your negotiable, sometimes justifiable activities.

    It is always the women who accuse the men of raping them, how do they even dare accuse men of such vile actions. Poor men, how are to defend themselves from such vile accusations. Women are notorious for whoring around. Just ask Ezekiel 16. (Note; Jerusalem is identified as female gender).

    On the contrary, it seems to me you are the one who is preoccupied with the vile sexual experiences of women being raped as Bells clearly demonstrated. Post #1531 is clear evidence of your distrust of women.

    In fact, it is you who has been making all the accusations of atheists being ignorant and incapable of understanding your holier that thou garbage without evidence or a reasonable explanation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  21. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    lol

    Could you expand on this line of thought, Jan?

    Maybe start another thread?

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  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Show where I sad that. Liar
    Firstly, the idea of Bells demonstrating anything in this thread, other than the ability to lie, is a real stretch.
    But be my guest, show how it is I am preoccupied with vile sexual experiences of women being raped. I bet you won’t, cause you know it’s not true.
    You’re simply angry that I have exposed Bells for what she is. A liar.
    Unlike hers, or your dumb claims, I can prove that the she is a liar.
    Here let me correct that for you…

    “In fact, it is you who has been making all the accusations of atheists being ignorant and incapable of understanding your holier that thou garbage without evidence or a reasonable explanation
    That would be correct.
    What of it?
     
  23. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Nah!
     
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