Reincarnation

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by moses207, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. moses207 Registered Member

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    Hello to me what you guys think on this: Perhaps this universe is God, perhapsthe cosmos its self is God, and any orthodox religion really has to do with cultural effects. So in short, perhaps pantheism is the way to go. Which buddhism and taoism pretty much except. Now i beleive we can not tear off the God part because their is some sort of underlying pattern along all of this. And another thing, if atoms are ageless, and energy can not be created, wouldn't reincarnation make the most sense, the sleep that we achieve when dead, and come back to life would seem like an instant, and the places would fuill up, because not everyoen would reincarnte at the same time. Some would go in faster, some slower, some farther in time some shorter. And do you guys think there is an end to this, or is it circular, or infinate. Im seekign wisdom, so tell me your opinons.
     
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  3. draqon Banned Banned

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    thats exactly what I believe in. But people seem to feel this God and sole lif with death as the only thing there is. I see infite lifes I have and will be in and universe as God entity itself ruled by rules of physics.
     
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  5. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    when you have issues of cause and effect (or rules of physics as you mention) you have issues of ultimate cause - when you tie this in with a picture of infinity, you have difficult problems resulting from how order can be absolute without an ordering power (or simply put, how do you get laws without a law maker?)
     
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  7. draqon Banned Banned

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    we are the lawmakers. we created this universe to live in from another universe.
     
  8. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    this really doesn't answer the question because then the issue is who/what caused the universe we were previously existing in (and since we owe our cause to a previous cause, ie our parents, who/what caused us?)
     
  9. draqon Banned Banned

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    well than if you are so God sole supportive...who created God? :bugeye:

    I say we create universes within universes and live in these universes. die to live in another life and so on...
     
  10. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    I agree and disagree. I believe reincarnation is the truth, but I also believe that God is not impersonal like the universe, but as personal as we are...

    I believe reincarnation happens kind of like how Quantum Immortality is except that instead of keeping this same physical body and living forever like in Quantum Immortality, you live forever but gain a new body relative to your last thought at death....

    God on the other hand is the original observer, who existed before the universe, after, and in between just the same.
     
  11. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

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    You just destroyed your own belief system in atempting to criticize someone elses.
     
  12. swivel Sci-Fi Author Valued Senior Member

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    Why do people keep inventing systems in a grab for immortality? What is wrong with the obvious fact that when we die, we are just gone forever?

    And where were all of these souls before the Earth was habitable? And where will these souls go when the Sun burns out, and the Earth will no longer support life?

    And why hasn't there been a consistent number of soul-vessels on the planet at all times? When the large impactors hit, and millions of species went extinct, it was some time before there were enough bodies to take the same number of souls in. And at some point, there were the first several living species, without the need for billions of souls at all.

    And do single-cell organisms have souls? Because they are the majority of our planet's biomass. What about plants?

    Let's not forget that there is no evidence for anything like a "soul", and plenty of evidence against. Head trauma and degenerative neurological disorders quickly change what someone would call their "soul".

    In sum, Reincarnation is hogwash, and obviously so. Just another tool that mortals use to rail against their impending non-existence.
     
  13. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    not really, because we have experience of laws being attributed to consciousness, but we have no experience of laws being attributed to non-entities (unless you can come up with a unified field theory)
     
  14. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    There's no evidence for, nor against this claim...nor can you really gather evidence for or against it...

    The soul is eternal and unborn, there are infinite souls (just like how in the many-minds interpretation there are infinite minds)

    "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain" (BG 2.20)

    "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same" (BG 2.24)

    Head trauma and degenerative neurological disorders aren't really evidence against the soul, as it says the mind is material, ever-changing, the cause of sensory perception, etc...

    Also I'm sure that if real concrete, undeniable evidence arose for the soul, afterlife, etc....atheists would deny it anyway
     
  15. swivel Sci-Fi Author Valued Senior Member

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    Incorrect. If there was evidence for these things, they would have nothing to do with theism and atheism. The ontology of science would swallow them gladly.

    What would actually happen is that theists would argue the findings of the rational scientists that made the discoveries. They would look for every gap and hole, and use the ignorance of others as their own license to make up whatever feels best to them, and cling to that.

    What is bizarre is that you admit that there is no evidence for a soul, and yet you tell me so many things about them. There are infinite numbers of them, they change over time, they move from one body to another. You admit that this is all made-up nonsense and then protest when I make light of it.

    You still haven't answered my questions. What will the souls do after the Sun goes Nova? Where were they before our solar system aggregated? My what mechanism do they travel from one body to another? If they can take no memories with them, what point is it to say that anything is reincarnated?

    So many questions come to me all at once that I can't fathom how any member of our species can actually believe this tripe. Especially when, as you admit, there is not a shred of evidence for any of it.
     
  16. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    Okay, swivel, here's an answer I'm sure you'll find nothing objectionable about. I believe in reincarnation because I find it comforting to a degree. It's nothing that would shake my world if it was proven one way or another. If we die and are reborn, cool. There's so much more history I want to see, and I'd like to try to retain memories of past lives next time around. If we die and there's nothing, so what? It's not like I'll be around to whine about it.

    Well, okay. Maybe you'll find something objectionable. That was pretty smug of me.
     
  17. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    When did we do that?
     
  18. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Thats incorrect if scientists really did prove undeniably that there was a soul and afterlife many atheists would become angry and try to disprove it, and still atheists would say well its still not evidence for God....

    Thats incorrect, I said there's no real way of gathering evidence for it, can you tell me an experiment design that would verify that a soul/afterlife was true or false?

    Also its not so far-off from many quantum theories like Quantum Immortality, Quantum Suicide, the many-minds interpretation, not to mention other consciousness theories like the space-time consciousness theory....but ofcourse you the atheist KNOW everything and can therefore say its all false, except for your beliefs, they're all true...

    Well according to the scripture the soul is the witness or the observer of all things, it does nothing, it is unchangeable, eternal, etc.....at death you gain a new existence and enter into a new reality....after the Sun blows up the samething would happen you would enter into a new reality....after the end of the universe you would become non-different from God...as for where as I said the soul is eternal, unchangeable, the witness or observer...

    The mind not made of matter is the carrier of memories from lifetime to lifetime....

    Your logic is fatally flawed, "if at the present time in civilization no evidence can be gathered for or against a claim, then the claim must be 100% false"....in ancient times no evidence could be gathered for blackholes, quarks, electromagnetism, etc....so through your logic that would mean that they were 100% false....and if you lived in ancient times I'm sure you would believe they weren't real or pseudoscientific...hahaha such a fatally flawed logic

    I'm sure that if a man from say the year 5000 came with his knowledge from the future with physics, biology, chemistry, etc...you would say its all pseudoscience and nonsense....
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2007
  19. Sauna Banned Banned

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    It is a continous process, like when you reincarnate because your body cells die while new cells grow.
     
  20. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    How exactly did the first reincarnation begin?
     
  21. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    Jesus came back as the New and Improved Jesus Mk II.
     
  22. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    At one time all life lived forever...then death came into the equation...
     
  23. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    We manifested the desire to be separate from god (such a thing is not actually possible, thus for this desire to be fulfilled we had to enter into the medium of illusion

    actually it was not so much death but illusion, namely the folly of placing eternal values on one's corporeal existence
     

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