Reality as Nonsense

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Spellbound, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. Spellbound Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Nonsense is a communication, via speech, writing, or any other symbolic system, that lacks any coherent meaning. Sometimes in ordinary usage, nonsense is synonymous with absurdity or the ridiculous. Many poets, novelists and songwriters have used nonsense in their works, often creating entire works using it for reasons ranging from pure comic amusement or satire, to illustrating a point about language or reasoning. In the philosophy of language and philosophy of science, nonsense is distinguished from sense or meaningfulness, and attempts have been made to come up with a coherent and consistent method of distinguishing sense from nonsense. It is also an important field of study in cryptography regarding separating a signal from noise.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonsense

    Nonsense can exist in reality as much as it can exist in the human mind. In such a case, confusion of the mind may result. In engineering, a signal may be distinguished from a noise by its content or substance and coherence. Both signal and noise exist in reality. These things are real. The task of the mind is to make sense of reality at hand. If it fails to do so then it perceives the reality of the signal as nonsense. However, the nonsense may only be perceived and therefore within one's mind as opposed to existing apart from it. One who speaks without a trace of sense may be defined as nonsense.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Good definition - and good example.
     
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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Nonsense can also result from the receptor unable to interpret the signal. This could be subjective nonsense. In this case, the noise is not really noise, but appears like noise due to lack of understanding. For example, if wrote useful content, but in code, this may look like noise and may be interpreted as nonsense by most people. If the audience is ego-centric, nonsense will be sold as useful information and useful information as nonsense.

    Part of the interpretation of the reality, is learning to interpret even the noise, since knowledge of reality is a work in progress that often builds upon the subjective nonsense of the past. It was nonsense for the earth to be round in the middle ages, when all the experts knew the earth was flat. In engineering, the instrument may not have a programmed context for the noise and therefore can't process it until there is an update.
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Take some ACTUAL history lessons.
    That way you won't spout nonsense.
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Oh no, not this ignorant canard AGAIN.

    In the Middle Ages, all the experts knew the Earth was round. This was established as early as 300BC by the Greeks (Remember Eratosthenes?) and there is no evidence it was ever forgotten. Furthermore any observant sailor would know or suspect this, from the experience of seeing vessels appearing or disappearing over the horizon and the ability to see further from the masthead than from the deck.

    It well be the case that the uneducated mass of landlubbers might have thought - in this pre-printing press and pre-mass literacy era - that it was flat. But the experts knew perfectly well it was round.
     
  9. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Aren't the experts the ones with the final say who decide what to teach the masses? If not, then the experts are not always in charge of the traditions. The experts can be trumped with politics, threats and bribery. This is true even today with revisionists history.

    I agree that with you that many people believed that the earth was round, but those in charge, assumed to be the experts due to their final say, perpetuated nonsense as clarity and clarity as nonsense. This does not change. If you wish to keep your doctor, you can and the insurance premium will go down by $2500 per person was nonsense. The perception of those in charge being experts due to final say, made nonsense appear like clarity.

    One technicality that is never mentioned about the transition from flat earth to round earth, was the earth is not exactly round but bulges at the center. Round was better than flat but still had noise. Atheists who hold resentment of the church talking this slow need to consider the early science was not noise free.

    But that is the nature of politics; emotion to cloud the noise with a blur effect.
     
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  10. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Suggest you read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth
     
  11. river Valued Senior Member

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    And politics is not friendly
     
  12. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    That comment above could serve as sciforums epitaph one day.

     
  13. river Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps

    But perhaps not

    Lets hope not
     
  14. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    I have a hard time believing true nonsense exists. What I would ask is, where do you get unmeaningful information from? By its definition "information" is informing you of something, whether you know what that something is or not. How do you define "random"? As soon as you define it, it's suddenly predictable, and therefore not random. A coin flip (the ideal perfect version, I think I read somewhere that tails actually has a slightly higher chance for U.S. quarters) will predictably fall on either side 50% of the time. It seems to me that the general criteria most have for "random" is just a predictable event that's beyond our computational powers to predict. To go at it a different angle, "nonsense" would require a broken chain of events. Either things happen that in turn cause other things (continuous reality), or every moment is a distinct, uninfluenced frame of existence. Or there's the third option of a mix of both where there's ordinary causal events and then magic that happens because fuck you its magic

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    I admit I don't know much about quantum mechanics, but is it so ridiculous an idea that quantum phenomena are actually composed of even more infinitely small particles that happen to collapse into predictable states that we can detect? Most people, I doubt, would be surprised if there was a machine that could flip a coin and predict it's outcome (fairly accurately) based on measurements of the current placement of the coin and the force used to flip it. Couldn't the quantum world be the "coin flip" our computers just aren't powerful enough (or maybe small enough) to figure out?
     
  15. Anew Life isn't a question. Banned

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    I personaly have visited forums that have quantum -(defined 1.as conglomerate commitment and agreement midst humans, or upon humans by other humans.2. I could venture for other working nonviolent basic defintions of the word

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    ). Anyway have visited forums that have quantum exemplification, as if their conducted by beings or a being whom demand typological perspective representation, and encourage disbelief to keep it's main at a standard claim capacity (particularly the posh sciforum).

    Now for potential ethical integral enlightenment: apparently nonsense- is defined as that which isn't choosing to present itself or it's claim in and of sensical valuable perspective..often more dwelling in sensual ideas than the precepts of realism which acknowledgeing the word scence could do. Another define of the word nonsense would be exaggeration,and being of commitment to ideas which exemplify the encouragement of such. choosing to enjoy getting sensical about any bit of information provided as if it all had working value.. no thanks.
     

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