Real story behind Columbine

If you're a fairly smart teen and you have fairly indifferent parents, I don't see it being that hard.
There was tons of shit I did as a teen that my mom had no clue about. Had she not been off partying and hanging out with her boyfriend of the week, she might have noticed more.
That's how kids get away with something like that.

Yeah but that's the kind of parental mentality that would prevent a teen from stockpiling weapons.
Plus, you as a parent have a right to inspect any part of their room as you wish, given that it's YOUR house and they are your children.

I understand that but what is your suggestion on how to deal with this?

Well, you've offered up your complaint and it's duely noted, now let's here a solution suggestion.

 

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Well they are rather dead so you can just say the buck stops there can't you? All nice and clean and smelling all rosy like.

Or you could ponder on all the 'psychotic little shits' that are running around out there who have received 'normal parenting' and 'normal education' and have totally 'normal peer relationships' - well according to many of the posters here at any rate - and just hope that one of them doesn't just snap (or spend a year planning all nicely like) and take out your brother, sister, aunt, uncle, mother, father or whoever happens to be wherever on the particular day the weasel goes pop.

Because nothing ever happens for a reason in totally randomland.

 

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one way is to bring back mental institutions and quite a few.

 

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There are neurobiological reasons for this kind of behaviour that can't be tied to environment and social conditioning.

 

Oh baby the volumes you speak...
Where was daddy in all this? He out partying too?

Anyway folks seems to think that once a kid hits 16 that parents have to step back and let the kids fall off the radar. All of a sudden these kids are fully equipped to deal with the full force of this nashty old world after having years of barbie and GI Joe shoved down their throats. At that age young people are trying to come to terms with a whole bag of shit that they are barely equipped to deal with. The vulnerable ones don't and columbine is an example of how horribly it can go wrong. They may have been 17 and 18 when they carried it out but they were a year younger when they started planning it so go do some finger counting there. At what age did it all start to go so badly wrong for these two?

Having said all this I worry about a misplaced sense of entitlement that many parents instil in their kids. Yes you are entitled to be loved by your family (although they might not be capable of expressing it) but don't expect anyone else to just hand it to you. Self respect is the key but it's not the same as feeling superior to everyone else just because you can do maths.

Absofucking lutely. Have US gun laws changed in any way since then? If not you parents better be checking under your kids beds and hoping that porn is the worst thing you find. Specially trained student councellors or similar in schools would also help and if they are present already then it looks like they need better training.

Er love your kids and let them know you love your kids and point them towards things that will help them deal with shit that happens.

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How many you want boy?

 

Sniffy I wasn't referring to their deaths, I was pointing out that they were dead inside long before they killed others and themselves

Would you hold yourself responsible for every mistake your child makes? At one point you do what you can and what you know how to do or what you are able to do and then the rest is up to them. At some point your kids are going to make decisions for themselves and come to conclusions that are in no way a reflection of you

 

Some parents need to grow a backbone.

Some parents need to take what teenagers say with a bigger pinch of salt.

Yeah it's always other children.

So now you've portrayed them 'psychotic little shits'.

Because they are troubled kids and/or are going through complex emotional issues which no-one had the skill or empathy to recognise?

When we manage to answer that question, then we might understand why these two little psychotic shits did what they did.[/QUOTE]

Yes well this thread here is an example of 'attempting to understand' we may not get too far with that one.

The buck stops with us all.

 

They were 'psychotic little shits'.

Sniffy: Because they are troubled kids and/or are going through complex emotional issues which no-one had the skill or empathy to recognise?

Oh stop it. Please that kind of liberalism just goes too far, 'complex emotional issues' indeed! THEY HAD NO LOVE FOR LIFE! They couldn't care for themselves or others. You give those who do have 'emotional issues' a bad name. Are we now all supposed to look at Hitler and excuse his actions as a world leader because he was a lonely child? Because he was a mediocre artist and no one wanted to recognize his work so he felt unaccepted and disenfranchised? Really now buck up man! These people are not even living in any hardship, think of all the kids around the world who live with real deprivation, who see war, who are forced into being child soldiers, sold by their families into prostitution and you have the nerve to waste your sympathy on those two! jesus the whole bloody planet should have these kind of shootings based on your argument, they should be happening 100x's a day all over the world. Basically these events are still isolated. They're not political warriors you know fighting for some misguided ideal. They were not 'crying inside' they were cold blooded psychotics too dead inside to be of any value.

 

Listen. If I find out my 17/18 year old kid had been planning to kill him or herself, a best friend, schoolmates and teachers and then actually did it; you bet your fucking life I'm going to be, at the very least, doing some 'soul-searching'.

And the same goes for my kid if it does the same when its 45 years old!

 

I get that. Just keep saying it.

ad nauseum

 

So? What follows from explaining their behavior by 'they were psychotic little shits'? That society / parents / teachers are to take no responsibility; that the killers themselves carry no responsibility; that it is beyond human power to prevent such cases in the future; that a healthy society should ignore such phenomena; that it shouldn't; ...?

 

Read my previous posts I address those things.

 

You seem to be implying some things, yes, but I'm not sure of what exactly your position is.
Could you sum it up please, in relation to my question?

 

What do you think - how come they 'had no love for life', 'couldn't care for themselves or others', 'cold blooded psychotics too dead inside to be of any value'? Neurobiology?

So you are saying that some scientific theory has to be taken as having the final say on human nature?

 

Society cannot be blamed for every member that falls through the cracks. Parents, schools etc all have a part to play in the overall health of their community but you are not going to be able to have a system where all psychotics can be identified. The truth is that most young people who may be troubled do not act out in such a nihilistic fashion and this is why I say these two were a prime example of anomie not in the social sense but in the expression of their state of mind. The truth is that not all psychotic behaviour is a result of bad parenting, bullying, depression, or unhappiness etc. but even if these factors applied at the age of 17 and 18 you are capable of making decisions and coming to conclusions. If you have a formula for a lack of conscience please come forth with it. If it is society in general then you would see this behaviour more often in society in general but even then people are responsible for their actions.

 

What part of the 'boyfriend of the week' escaped your perception?

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But no, they were long since divorced. I spent quite a few years with my two aunts because I couldn't stand my mom's 'behavior'. It's a big reason why I frown on promiscuitiy and slutty behavor. And when I say 'b/f of the week' I mean that almost literally.
Tell me what only child with a single mother wouldn't be somewhat affected by this in his later years.
But I'm sure you and bells will come up with some bullshit justifying her behavior.

There's a million dollar statement right there. That makes me think about that 'you're my child and you're special' mentality crap. How can we all be special?

True, but I bet if those two were as smart as everyone made them out to be, they would have probably even been able to acquire firearms in the UK or Australia (models of socialist type gun control laws). I seriously doubt strict gun control laws would have prevented this. Strict gun control laws would not have prevented them from aquiring the materials to make the bombs they made that fortunately turned out to be duds.

And beat their ass when they fuck up!

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As many as you have time to list, girl. I just don't like seeing people bitch about something yet offer up no solutions for what they're bitching about (not accusing you though).

 

What is the difference between someone who is 'dead inside' (whatever the fuck that scientific diagnosis means) because they are 'troubled' or have a psychotic illness and someone who is 'dead inside' because their family sold them into prostitution or child soldiering? Hint: there is no fucking difference! I bet you frikken what though. Put a stockpile of weapons in their hands and they might just do something a little unpleasant. Put an army and a gullible public at their disposal and....

The whole bloody planet does have these sort of murders. They do happen 100xs a day. They are called multiple murders, serial killings, ethnic cleansing, wars on terror, suicide bombings...

When a couple of teenagers take a pile of weapons and rampage through a school there's more to it than simply those kids being psychotic little shits who just beamed down from some other planet and therefore bear no relation to what we do here and now with our own children.

We could look into it and make some connections or just go along with those dummies who watch a TV news report and think that's all there is to the whole story.

"An armchair psychologist decided today that the columbine murderers were psychotic little shits who weren't living in any hardship so, like, they totally deserved to die. And now for the weather in your area....."

 

Well there are neurobiological factors, not all things can be pinned on environment and there have been studies to suggest this. But again no matter what the matter was in their case they STILL have to be held responsible for their actions. What would you have done with them if they had lived? Lock them up in jail or mental institution or rub their backs and help them feel better?