Real Non-Perpetual Gravity Engines.

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Aman shah, May 26, 2012.


Do you think that Non-perpetual Gravity engine are possible to invent?

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Aman shah Registered Senior Member

    According to Perpetual Motion Defination,from wikipedia,
    Perpetual motion describes hypothetical machines that operate or produce useful work indefinitely and, more generally, hypothetical machines that produce more work or energy than they consume, whether they might operate indefinitely or not.

    Reality is we cannot go against those three laws of thermodynamics and three newton’s laws?These laws are verified to be true!So the perpectual devices based on modern Perpectual Defination can not be made(impossible). But real gravity engines are possible to make which do not violate laws of thermodynamics and Newton’s laws of motion.

    Yes,some well known accepted laws of physics are proved wrong recently as I expected because those laws were made on assumptions which were not verified properly as true.But newton’s laws and laws of thermodynamics have enough evidences/proofs to proove it right.

    My Gravity engine Is not Perpectual and based on the regular laws of physics you read in books,use or see everyday.

    Why my engine works and why it is not Perpectual?

    If it does not work,it will prove the regular laws of physics absolutely wrong!
    All the laws of physics used in my engine are already validated to be true!and all those theories are used in other devices

    There are three types of theories which can be proposed by a scientist:
    1)theories based on assumptions(assumptions made with doubtable reasons):May be wrong or right:need to be experimentally verified
    2) theories based on well known and well established laws:Always right
    3)Hybrid of 1st and 2nd type

    My engine is based on 2nd type!
    To prove my engine works I have to prove that my engine works on regular laws of physics!

    Since my engine is based on regular concepts of physics,there is no doubt that it works!
    To check the validity of my engine,you may check the Example showing how Gravity energy is used as fuel in my engine

    Now I am going to start making a prototype!I am talking to my college professors for starting this project!And the response is positive!Real Non-Perpectual gravity magnetic engines

    Example showing how Gravity energy is used as fuel in my engine

    Refer Rough Sketch On Flickr website.

    (Refering this sketch is important,else my invention Gravity Engine concept would not be understandable)

    Hi guys,here is my analogous example of a very heavy weight red ball hanging,to explain a single cycle of my gravity engine working principle.

    The splashing water on right side indicates how gravity is used to overcome water resistance,and convert gravitational energy in to splashing of water which is analogous to converted net electrical output of my engine.
    The more the weight of ball,the more the resistance overcomed.

    Energy is only supplied here to lift the ball up and recovered when ball comes down.It is comprising of half cycle motor and half cycle generator located at red pivot,controlled by a commutator.

    Here also two downward processes occur simultaneously:

    (1) recovery of supplied energy to lift the red ball through half cycle Generator mode of Motor Cum Generator at red shown Pivot.

    (2)The conversion of Gravitational energy in to electrical usable energy due to Overcommable weight obstacle resistance by the gravitational energy acting for more time by slowing the downward process. (Assume that you use water turbine to convert energy consumed in splashing of water into electricity for eliminating confussion).

    Note that water resistance is present only on right at downward motion of ball and not on left.

    The commutator changes it’s circuit coils orientation so that during upward process you lift ball and during downward process you recover supplied energy .

    The idea behind the overcommable resistance is to extend time spent by gravity to act on a heavy object/ball by a few nanoseconds due to the slowing down of the heavy ball speed due to resistance offered.The more the time gravity acts at a particular height(H=H1),the more the gravity energy gained to overcome resistance (splashing the water resistance in analogous example given) as well to rotate the half cycle generator rotor.

    That was just an Very similar analogy,actual engine will be actually completely different but will work on same principle.The resistance element will be like elastic like overcommable solid,but not fluid in my original design.

    I have discussed only Analogous example(Basic concept) on Flickr only due to initial Patent law compatibility.I would have revealed the whole engine design itself instead of analogy BUT ;;;
    (A)"A patent document is published in Official gazette for public Opposition and further legal processing ONLY if the idea is novel AND it is never and not at all published anywhere else."—This is what patent law says.
    (B)Not only this,any body can copy the invention and patent it before you if you disclose it without publication in patent office. "

    "Analogy is a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target)"

    What is strange is “Why nobody else pointed out about such a mechanical resistance before which can be overcomed by gravitational force.”
    If you still have confussion open any “mechanics of material “textbooks and study how materials and weight offer resistance.This resistance occurs due to weight of the fluid.This type of resistance can also occur due to solid body weight.

    So,what my engine does is tap the energy required to go against the resistance by the gravity.

    Balance energy equation for my concept:

    Energy supplied to lift Red ball through commutator controlled motor mode at pivot + gravitational energy required to push the resistance away + frictional losses + other entropy losses = supplied energy recovered though generator mode by commutator control at pivot(red coloured in sketch) + electricity converted from overcoming of resistance+ frictional losses + Back EMF losses + other entropy losses.

    It’s also right if said theoratically that “energy supplying and recovery process “is just like a or analogous to a catalyst,which is used to let the resistance overcomming process through gravity take place without actually any net change of electrical energy form/format from one form to another form of energy.The energy used to overcome resistance is then converted to electrical energy by a suitable energy conversion system.

    Limitation of the example/Analogy discussed here:
    The analogy only explains a single complete cycle of the engine in comparison to Continuous repeating cycle of the actual engine.
    Water is not used in actual engine due to efficiency problems of water turbine energy conversion processes.Water splashing is turbulent and blades opposite reaction of blades to the water striking offers lot of losses.So some other much much more efficient Solid elastic type resistance system is used in actual engine.

    Elaboration of my idea in brief:

    The criteria for resistance system in my engine is:

    1) first of all it should be overcommable.
    2) it should be present only downwards and not upward.
    3) The resistance system should be highly/reasonably efficient(output by input)
    4) Amount of overcommable resistance should be reasonably large enough.

    If the resistance cannot satisfy these conditions,then it cannot be used in my engine.

    The splashing of water resistance (overcomming of water resistance)is quiet similar to the Overcomming of cantilever beam resistance by the central weight loading.The machenism of failure of two column supported beam(Simply supported beam) works similarly.Let weight W be loaded at centre.The overcomeability of a good beam should be less at initial stage.Initially there will be allmost an equal and opposite reaction from the beam for the weight loading,with little energy spent for deformation.Slowly ATOMIC Dislocation takes place(slippage of atomic planes/slippage of grain boundaries)and a point reaches where stress become unbearable(stress is resistance to deformation).As the stress become unbearable,there will be minimum equal and opposite reaction for the weight loading and then the most amount of continuous gravitational energy will be used to overcome this beam resistance/stress and finally the beam breaks.This is analogous to what happens in my engine with the exception of the speed at which all this happens.This is what I learnt in Material Science subject.No good material science Professor in machenical engineering would deny this.
    The speed of this similar process is actually relatively fast,occurs in extended nanoseconds time in my engine whereas in beams it is very low speed [It occurs in beams due to mainly Creep.

    So my engine does not go against laws of physics.In fact what I have told here about mechanism of Creep due to stress becoming unbearable is the backbone of structural engineering and the first question for an interview could be “how beams fail under self weight load and external weight load.”My technology does not bend physics but uses it in a altogether different way.

    It is like removing some upward resistance and hence you do not find water in left semi bowl in the analogous example(The resistance system is water in Rightside of semi bowl coupled to a energy converter water turbine.).

    For example,If there is a 1 kg of solid powder to be lifted upwards,I need X amount of work done upwards.If I have to push 2 Kg of solid powder downwards,I need to consume X plus X (2X)amount of Gravitational energy.

    Net energy consumed = 2 X -X =X
    Which is then converted to Net electrical energy Output.This is what one of the way of satisfacting the Principle,

    Mostly real Gravity engines should work on the principle that the Gravity engine/Gravity wheel systems are innovatively designed to take in (consume) much more Gravitational energy than what energy needed to lift heavy ball upward.

    Now notice that this cannot be achieved when such a overcommable resistance gradient occurs only with respect to time vertically.In other words,you need your system to be in a cyclic circular path OR in other words the gradient should occur in a circular cyclic path.

    Just wanted to share this,Please share the below very very important article with as many people as possible:

    Well do you know what is the real problem.?

    The problem is the dangerous cancerous virus called “Perpetual”. Real Gravity engines are not perpetual and PMM do not exists.

    People falsely stupidly relate Perpetual motion machines with “Gravity engines” without understanding about PMM (Perpetual Motion Machines)and how gravitational energy can be used to run a gravity engine.

    The problem with most people is they do not think properly about the fundamental Principle involved in any Gravity engine which needs little Electrical energy supplied initially.

    There are 95 percent chances that working Gravity engines should work on the principle that the Gravity engine/Gravity wheel systems are innovatively designed to take in (consume) much more Gravitational energy than what energy needed to lift heavy ball upward.

    Offcoarse this needs Innovative and detailing thinking power to design such a engine.

    If you substract total Gravitational energy input from the energy needed to lift heavy balls up in a gravity wheel,you get some net gravitational energy which is the net energy input to the system(input after subtraction) which can be converted to electrical energy.This is the scientific basis for any real Gravity engine.And hence real Gravity engines are not perpetual and do not violate Laws of energy conservation,simply because these gravity engines will use gravitational energy as net input, for a balanced Energy equation.

    Idiot People who do not believe in Gravity engines say that since you get more energy than supplied it violates physics and hence Gravity engines are impossible.

    But the most worst thing is they do not consider the freely available hidden energy source in nature itself :The amplified larger quantity of gravitational energy used in innovative way than that of energy needed to lift heavy object up.

    And the problem lies in cheaters claiming to invent/people attempting engines violating Laws of thermodynamics.
    The Internet is full of around 100000 nonsense claims of Perpetual Motion Machines (cheaters)which are actually misguiding most people to believe that either gravity engines are not possible or are perpetual.

    The words “gravity engines” themselves reveal that these engines use gravitational energy as input to engine.So there is no question of violating Energy conservation law.That is why I say Everytime that about 60 percet of world is going towards intelluctual drain.

    These cheaters and non intelluctual conventional minded people have made our scientists life miserable.Very little people believe in us real scientists because of the psycological thinking that gravity / magnetic engines are Perpectual!It seems these people including most professors have stopped thinking the reality and are only bookish.

    The internet community should explain the reality to other people!Do not simply tell people that free energy engines exist:Unless you explain them that these engines are not Perpectual and you can use gravity resistance concept intelligently,no one will believe in us!And try to spread my message to as many places/websites as possible.Be aware of spams and cheaters and make others aware of theses spams.
    If you all will do what I say,the day is not far when your children will see IC engines in museums,and will never go to any fuel filling station!But we only need your effort in right direction,not just some statements which don’t explain the reality!A magnetic engine is also possible.Photons compress atomic particles to store compressed energy in them as nuclear energy,but it’s not easy to make such engines.

    Magnetic Engines are I think should be more complex to make because of the complex Quantum nanoscale mechanisms involved in it.

    But gravity engines are according to me are more preferable to me than magnetic Engines,because extracting magnetic materials on large scale could disturb earth’s magnetic field which can cause floods,earthquakes,etc.
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
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  3. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Aman's been spamming this over on He claims to be an engineering student, yet seems to have no grasp of thermodynamics at all.
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  5. Aman shah Registered Senior Member

    Thermodynamics do not deny that Gravitational energy can be converted from one form to another form.

    Read the Sections ,"Example showing how Gravity energy is used as fuel in my engine" AND "Elaboration of my idea in brief:" in detail,and understand how stress is overcommed in a way similar to mechanism of creep.

    Before commenting,it is better to analyse the concept properly fully, rather than totally illogical comments like that of yours.For reference please see the analogous Diagram on Flickr.

    An engineer is not foolish and he/she will never make a Perpetual Motion Machine.

    It is foolishness of people like you to consider Gravity engines as Perpetual Motion Machine without any logic or proof.

    A real gravity powered machine is not a PMM and derives it's input as freely available
    Gravitational energy.

    My engine is just a Energy converter,it is not a new Energy Generator.

    Assuming Gravity engines as PMM is one of the ways of Free energy Suppresion.
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
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  7. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    This is nonsense.
  8. Mazulu Banned Banned

    It doesn't sound like you really have a specific idea about how to build a gravity engine. You're just throwing science sounding words around.

    So dig deep into your imagination and come up with something a little more tangible and innovative.
  9. Aman shah Registered Senior Member

    Thanks.I have given here only the concept(Analogy)

    I discussed only Analogous example on Flickr only due to initial Patent law compatibility.I would have revealed the whole engine design itself instead of analogy BUT ;;;
    (A)"A patent document is published in Official gazette for public Opposition and further legal processing ONLY if the idea is novel AND it is never and not at all published anywhere else."—This is what patent law says.
    (B)Not only this,any body can copy the invention and patent it before you if you disclose it without publication in patent office. "

    "Analogy is a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target)"
  10. Mazulu Banned Banned

    My concept for a gravity propulsion engine is freely available for anyone to read. It's based on the premise that wave-functions and cycles (of electromagnet energy) are the building blocks of space. Enjoy.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
    The double slit experiment is what convinces me that space is made out of wave-functions. When just one photon or one electron is fired at a time, at the slits, an interference pattern is produced. The idea that the particle goes through both slits sounds like a misinterpretation, at least to me.

    Here is my interpretation. The pathways that the particle takes, as it travels from the emission point, through the slit(s), to the back plane, is itself a wave function. The particles just follow the wave function pathway wherever it leads. As long as we don't know which slit the particle goes through, the wave-function pathways can exist and can interfere with each other.

    My interpretation is that the pathways are wave-functions. These wave-functions really do exist as a natural phenomena. These pathway wave-functions exist as if waiting for a particle, a photon or electron or some other quantum particle to travel along its pathway. By extrapolation, these wave-function pathways must exist everywhere in space. If that is true, then perhaps these wave-function pathways are a convenient mechanism for gravity.

    I dropped my physics book on the floor, which is itself an experiment in gravity. The loud bang was a measurable result. But gravity can also be measured with atomic clocks. Most people are not aware that a gravity field is also a time dilation field. Using lots of atomic clocks, I can measure the flow or pace of time at several fixed points in space. By taking the ratio of a time interval between two points in space, I can obtain the time dilation between those two points. General relativity predicts, and GPS measurements confirm, that gravity fields produce gravitational time dilation. If there is a time dilation between two points, point A and point B, in a time dilation field, then we can calculate the time dilation between those two points. Let us say that the time dilation between points A and B is t_AB =2.

    As an experiment, let us say that a one picosecond (10^-12 seconds) burst of 400THz (400x10^12 cycles per second) is emitted from point A and detected at point B. That means that, 400x10^12 cycles per second *10^-12 sec = 400 cycles are emitted from point A. It follows that 400 cycles will be detected at B. But at point B, all 400 cycles are detected in 0.5 picoseconds, because at point B, time is slower. So the detector detects 400 cycles/0.5x10^-12 sec = 800 THz.

    The wave-function for a photon is Psi(x,t) = Ae^(kx -wt) = cos(kx-wt) + i sin(kx - wt). I said that wave-functions are a real phenomena of nature. I also said that I transmitted 400 cycles from A and received 400 cycles at B.

    I am trying to get you to see that the wave-function pathways that exist everywhere in space are just ... cycles. Space is made of cycles of wave-functions. That is the whole reason for looking at frequency shift as a means to generate gravitational time dilation. By generating a frequency shift from 400 THz to 800 THz every microsecond, I am trying to induce a time dilation pathway, across a distance of 10^-6 sec *3x10^8 m/s = 300 meters. When done rapidly and repeatedly, the cycles that are the pathways that make up space, will begin to dominate, and time dilation will occur within the 300 meter span of the frequency shift. When time dilation is induced, a gravity field will occur.

    That is how you build a gravity field propulsion generator. ​
  11. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    God told him how.

    Or maybe it was the aliens, he's never too clear about that.

    It's also apparent that he never read the OP, but just went by the title of the thread.
  12. Aman shah Registered Senior Member

    Hi Mazulu,

    Good to hear that you are working on a new gravity field Propulsion Generator.But what is the relation between wavefunction(electromagnetic energy/energy of photons) and Gravity(Earth's magnetic field).I didn't understood this?

    And how you use these wavefunctions of photons to power a device?Your explanation for your theory/research was not very clear regarding this.

    You can send me more info on "Private message " section of this website,regarding my Quiries.
    Thanks and best of luck with your Research work.
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  13. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Sigh.... Dinfast...

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  14. Mazulu Banned Banned

    Hi Aman,
    I want to keep the communication public because I want the idea out there, the idea that frequency shifting is the key to gravity field generation. I don't mind the occasional heckler because their efforts have proven to be ineffective.

    I started from the point of view that gravity drive propulsion had already been proven to exist, and that all we had to do was to figure out how they did it. The fact that flying saucers have not landed in front of some University's physics department and allowed testing is completely irrelevant. We don't need proof of their existence. What we do need is an idea for a gravity field generator experiment. So this is what I did. I started thinking about the powerful gravity fields of black holes. I noticed that when photons fall in, they blue shift along the radii. They also redshift when trying to escape. If a strong gravity field will frequency shift light (or the photons of a laser), then I had a suspicion that frequency shift and gravity are coupled somehow.

    Now I admit that it takes massive amounts of mass-energy to produce a measurable gravity field, let alone the strong gravity of a black hole. So what chance does some frequency shifted light have to induce a gravity field? Remember that everything that we know about gravity is included in the Einstein equations. The Einstein equations are based upon experiments that we've performed, and our understanding of space-time geometry. But nobody has ever performed a frequency shift experiment of any consequence. Yes, I admit that FM radio towers do not open up wormholes. But nobody has ever measured the acceleration field of a large frequency shift performed in a very short time period.

    This is the experiment that I suggest. Emit an electromagnetic frequency of the form, f(t) =[df/dt]t + f_0. I recommend a frequency shift from 400 to 800THz, every microsecond. Strong gravity fields will frequency shift light. Gravity fields are also known to induce gravitational time dilation. It is not unreasonable to wonder if frequency shift is coupled to gravity. After all, one might suppose that frequency shift is coupled very naturally to gravitational time dilation because time dilation, at its very essence, tells us that the duration of "one second" is different from point A to point B, where the time dilation between point A and point B is t_AB.

    So what is the relationship between wave-functions and gravity? One possible answer is that 1) wave-functions are the pathway that light takes as it passes the each slit in the double slit diffraction experiment; 2) geodesics are the path that light takes through space-time.
  15. Aman shah Registered Senior Member

    In the theory of relativity, time dilation is an actual difference of elapsed time between two events as measured by observers either moving relative to each other or differently situated from gravitational masses.

    So basically you are trying to have the light wave travel through the gravity towards earth under the influence of Earth's Gravity just similar to that in the case of black hole's extremly strong gravity absorbing Photons.

    But then how you are going to convert this vertical Wave shift due to gravity in to Electrical power?

    Nice idea though !But You will have to make a machine to do that which is a bit difficult to do.Nikola Tesla might have tried that,he was a genious having so many crazy but Practical and realistic ideas about free energy devices,running on Radio waves as well as on what he used to call "Ether" or "Radiant energy" which we don't understand.

    I think you will like to see"Radiant Energy: Unraveling Tesla’s Greatest Secret Part 1"
    Search for it on google,I think it will be interesting for you.

    Actually gravitational field is allmost constant for certain distance(9.8 m/s square)only and Wikipedia's subtopic"Variation in gravity and apparent gravity" under topic "Gravity of Earth"
    suggests that after certain altitude,gravity decreases with increase in Altitude.

    That means Wavelength of light decreases when photons approaches towards earth.this is regarding Frequency Shift.

    Traditional physics says that gravity has Negligible or "no weight " effect on photons but this is not the case with Blackhole,and hence your theory might be applicable but difficult to achieve in reality due to difficulty in making the equipments needed(not impossible though if hard work is done in the research).
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  16. Mazulu Banned Banned

    The experiment could be developed by a design team, some electrical engineers and some ASIC programmers. If you can make a computer chip with millions of transistors, then in principle you can make a frequency shifting chip with 8 different color LED's. You could have a million groups of 8 LED's on a wafer. Designers and electrical engineers can design the circuitry for clocks. The end result is that you flash each frequency "step" as you progress from 400 to 800 THz. You perform the test by emitting the frequency shifted light at a 100g weight as it sits on a very sensitive scale.

    This kind of experiment could be performed for under a million dollars and in less than 6 months.
  17. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Back to blinking lights and trying to 'trick' the universe again.
  18. Aman shah Registered Senior Member

    Ok Mazulu,go ahead and try to make the experiment a success......All the very best.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Now let us discuss about my concept which I have explained with a rough sketch (Flickr webpage reference ) on Subtopics"Example showing how Gravity energy is used as fuel in my engine" and "Elaboration of my idea in brief:"

    NOTE:Read fully my first comment/first post in this thread with reference of rough conceptial sketch and only then comment.I have experienced people commenting without reading full documents in some other forum which messed my thread so much that moderator told me to close and start a fresh thread on same topic.Read about" creep "resemblance of my resistance system.Note that creep does not occur in engine BUT something "similar to Creep"occur in the overcommable resistance system with a little faster speed than that of "Creep".

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  19. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

    There is no way I am going waste my time going through such overly long posts. Maybe you could just give an overview in a few lines of what you are talking about?
  20. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    @Aman Shah

    What you posted on flickr looks like a perpetual motion machine.

    One of your mistakes is that you forgot to account for losses.

    As a result, it won't work.
  21. Aman shah Registered Senior Member

    The thread gives an overview of what is the reality of Gravity engines,how they work and state that real Gravity powered engines are Not Perpetual Motion Machines.the threads also discusses in short concept of my invention with a sketch example on Flickr.
    You may only read the Subtopic"Example showing how Gravity energy is used as fuel in my engine"with reference to sketch on Flickr written in my first comment in this thread,if you are really in a hurry.
  22. Aman shah Registered Senior Member


    Read the balanced energy equation given in my first post in the thread correctly.Have'nt I mentioned about this losses in the equation?

    It is a Commonsense that any machine has losses,and only thing we can do it is reduce it.We cannot eliminate it.

    Note this:1)actual engine will be actually different but will work on same principle and will use some elastic type resistance system instead of the water used in the example.
    2) Also note that water resistance in the example is present only on right side and not on left side.

    You need to read my whole first comment here to understand fully.
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  23. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    I didn't bother to read the book-length first post in this thread.

    But just replying to the question in the subject line, I'm inclined to say 'yes'.

    It might not count as a "engine", but it's certainly possible to convert gravitational energy into other kinds of energy.

    If we could steer asteroids into collision course with Earth, they would make great super-bombs.

    And more constructively, there's the tides. The Moon's gravity moves vast amounts of water every day. We could probably capture some of that at high tide, and then extract energy from it with turbines or something at low tide. I'm not sure about the efficiencies or tidal power's financial viability, but it isn't impossible.

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