Rare Flight 93 News Footage.

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Ganymede, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

    This thread is not intended to debate the 911 conspiracy. Unfortunately the right to openly debate that historical moment has been stripped from us only because it doesn't fit within the moderators preconceived prejudices or baseless conclusions. The video link I'm posting shows news clips from the local reporters who were actually on the ground at the scene of the crime. I will not discuss any conspiracy, only what the reporters are reporting on the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc&feature=rec-HM-fresh div
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  3. leopold Valued Senior Member

    the actual reason is that this subject has been beat to death, but death isn't good enough for some people.
    as soon as a thread was closed on this subject a new one would appear.
    when i first registered on this board such an act would result in an immediate ban.
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  5. phlogistician Banned Banned

    "nothing going on down there, no smoke, no fire ...."

    A statement contradicted by the footage we are presented with, as I saw smoke.

    All this shows is that a full investigation is required before we start drawing conclusions, and that eye-witness reports need to be taken in the context of their single perspective.
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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Just for the record, you should check this link which is housed on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STS-107-Debris_KSC_Hangar.jpg

    It's a picture of the Debris from the Columbia Space ship crash, you'll notice that the component pieces of debris in the picture "aren't much bigger than a phonebook in size each."

    So did that not happen too?
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

  9. candy Registered Senior Member

    The authentic NBC footage would be from WJAC Chanel 6 Johnstown PA. They went in right behind the local volunteer fire department and stayed until the FBI secured the site.
  10. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Hey, Ganymede, looks like you got shot down in flames.
  11. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

    Ganymede doesn't understand the difference between a plane crashing at near the speed of sound and one crashing at approach speed.

    A fail detective you make.
  12. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member


    I'm with you. You are correct.

    Exhibit A.

    Exhibit B.

    Exhibit C.

    Exhibit D.

    Exhibit E. It's transcript.
  13. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Some plane just crashed in Iran too. Pieces same size. Maybe that was also a conspiracy.
  14. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

    Hell, even small pieces, ANY pieces would be nice. I saw that photo Stryder posted. GOD, wouldn't that be great if there WERE some wreckage left? I haven't seen any photo's of wreckage yet, refer me please? All the photos and video I see are just charred trees and an old abandoned strip mine. No evidence of any plane crash site. You?

    Pleases see Exhibit C.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
  15. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

    Do you really have such an aversion to doing some simple research?


    Please read all of the above including pages 2 and 3. You'll be happy to note that there are multiple pictures of aircraft peices as well as passenger and hijacker artifacts.

    If you are unable to come back with any coherant reason why even some of it is wrong, the thread should be locked just like all the other 9/11 threads which have been a gigantic waste of time.
  16. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    I flew a mission to a crash site in Vietnam, where a F-4-J went in, and all that was left of a 41,000 lb aircraft was a smoking hole in the dirt, the pilot on a bomb run went into target fixation, and bored into the ground, most of the debree was in the hole and a lot of confetti around the hole.

    Bob Blair of Stoystown was driving a coal truck on state Route 30 when he saw the jet plummet "straight down." Barn windowpanes for half a mile around shattered as the jet dived into a reclaimed strip mine and exploded at 10:10 a. m.

    A witness told WTAE-TV's Paul Van Osdol that she saw the plane overhead. It made a high-pitched, screeching sound. The plane then made a sharp, 90-degree downward turn and crashed.
  17. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member


    I disagree. I will respond to YOUR evidence, when you take the time to refute mine. How does that sound? That sounds more fair to me?

    Nice page, though. Very nice. It's very dishonest and mean of you to just totally ignore all of what I have presented, not respond to it in any fashion, and then just post some debunking site, and expect me to "debunk" a debunking site. That is not the issue here. The issue is Flight 93. It was shot down. Witness the preponderance of evidence, refute, or go away.
  18. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

    The first link is yes, a touching story, that can be equally true if the flight was shot down. The second link? It wouldn't work. Did you copy and paste it correctly, or is it my server?
  19. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

    I can believe that very little debris would be recognizable from a nosedive crash....however that building right next to the hole in the ground should be gone too.
  20. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

    I will respond to your nonsense so long as you actually go and read the link I gave you. Not just skim it; read it, understand it, digest it, think critically and come back to me with your honest assessment of it.

    I can't help but notice you seem to be both claiming that there was no plane in Shanksville, whilst also claiming it was shot down in Shanksville?! So what is it to be? Was it shot down or was it miraculously hidden somewhere even though radar tracked it all the way to Shanksville?

    If Flight 93 was shot down, we'd expect to see debris along the flight path BEFORE the impact crater, but this wasn't the case. As it happens debris was found in the direction the plane was heading, but never flew over. This is due to the angle the plane hit and the momentum of some debris continued forward at high velocity 900 feet or so.

    The video claiming that wreckage was found miles away from the crash site doesn't sound very suspicious when you consider this was papers, clothing, insulation etc. This would have been carried there by the wind.

    This also happened when Flight 427 crashed in a similar manner to that of Flight 93 and lightweight materials were found miles away from the impact site.

    Lastly, what logical motive would the government have in staging a fake hijacking on this plane, and then for some bizzarre reason shooting it down and then try to cover-up the fact that they shot it down? If they shot the plane down, the military would be celebrated for doing so due to lives that would have been saved had it been allowed to reach its target.

    This doesn't interest me at all. There is absolutely no corroborating evidence for this and I'm not going to take his word for it when there is more than enough evidence to show the hijackers crashed the plane themselves.

    The crater was perfectly consistent with a nose-down high speed crash.

    Please watch this video:

    The crash site of PSA 1771 was just like that of flight 93.

    What Popular Mechanics had to say about this Gibney:

    Saying he was reluctant to fuel debate by responding to unsubstantiated charges, Gibney (a lieutenant colonel, not a major) declined to comment. According to Air National Guard spokesman Master Sgt. David Somdahl, Gibney flew an F-16 that morning--but nowhere near Shanksville. He took off from Fargo, N.D., and flew to Bozeman, Mont., to pick up Ed Jacoby Jr., the director of the New York State Emergency Management Office. Gibney then flew Jacoby from Montana to Albany, N.Y., so Jacoby could coordinate 17,000 rescue workers engaged in the state's response to 9/11. Jacoby confirms the day's events. "I was in Big Sky for an emergency managers meeting. Someone called to say an F-16 was landing in Bozeman. From there we flew to Albany." Jacoby is outraged by the claim that Gibney shot down Flight 93. "I summarily dismiss that because Lt. Col. Gibney was with me at that time. It disgusts me to see this because the public is being misled. More than anything else it disgusts me because it brings up fears. It brings up hopes--it brings up all sorts of feelings, not only to the victims' families but to all the individuals throughout the country, and the world for that matter. I get angry at the misinformation out there."

    What Popular Mechanics has to say about fraudster Grand-Pre:

    Sondahl says he is familiar with Grand-Pre's allegations. "I know he claims he knows our pilots, which is false. I know he claims he knows our adjustant general, which is false," he says. "I know everything he has claimed about Lieutenent Colonel Rick Gibney and the 119th Fighter Wing is complete crap."

    General Shelton, who is now retired, also refutes Frand-Pre's claims. "I don't know this individual," Shelton tells Popular Mechanics. "The name doesn't ring a bell and I certainly never saw a report that he rendered alleging there was some type of conspiracy or that National Guard pilot shot down [Flight 93]." Shelton continues" I have a reputation for being candid, and I had seen a paper like that or heard a story like that, I would tell you, and I would tell you what I did with it. I never heard anything that was anything close to what he was saying. From my perspective, all that is hogwash."

    Why was the plane that shot down Flight 93 not on Radar?
    Why did the plane crash in one peice?
    Why was no debris found BEFORE the impact point?
    Why did the FDR show no signs of the plane being hit by a missle?
    Why are passengers heard on phonecalls planning to raid the cockpit, then the commotion is heard on the CVR with the terrorists being heard crashing the plane?

    These questions and dozens of other questions that I don't have time to list must be answered before I take an unnamed person for their word.
  21. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Kenny's got you sorted, mate.

    Big planes make big holes, and small, wierdly scattered wreckage. It happens all over. Deal with it.
  22. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Illustrate your evidence, or refute, or go away. How would an aircraft shot down look any different from an aircraft that crashed? Show me some big bullet holes in the fuselage or be silent.
  23. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Why? The plane wasn't a bomb, it would create no high speed shock wave front necessary to destroy the building.

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