Please do not swear at me seagypsy. I have addressed you politely in this thread so please keep your abuse out of it. And I was discussing this with Neverfly. I am sure he is able to defend himself without your abusive and rude tirade. I would also strongly suggest you do not accuse me of being a liar without actual proof. If you are unable to discuss this in a calm manner, I would suggest you leave this discussion until you calm down and are able to discuss it in a calm manner. As to my authority about what to call a foetus.. and what rights I have over my womb.. I have every single authority to call it a foetus, just as you have every single authority to not call it a foetus. I have every single authority over my body just as you have absolutely no authority over my body or whether I get an abortion or not. Just as I and every single other human being on this planet should not have any authority over your body or what you do with your body or whether you decide to get an abortion or not. *Snort* I believe you are very much mistaken, seagypsy. [HR][/HR] Because I made that choice. I could just have easily have decided to terminate right at the start of the pregnancy if I so chose to. No one else has the right to make that choice for me at any given time or point. For example, when I was 16 weeks pregnant with my first born, I had a massive hemorrhage. And this is going to be graphic, so if you are squeamish, best to not read from this point on.. As in massive. I was alone at home that evening and one minute I was fine and the next I had blood gushing down my legs and felt something coming out. The amount of blood was, well, insane. Suffice to say that by the time the paramedics arrived, I had soaked through a beach towel to the point where it was dripping down from that towel. Since I felt something between my legs, I didn't hold out much hope by that point. We got to the hospital and I was rushed through and a flurry of doctors rushed in and I was literally bleeding like there was an open tap going. They could not stop it. And I felt this thing coming out and I said, it's coming out and they took it away for testing. Then to stop the bleeding, the doctors said to me they were going to rush me into surgery. And I refused. I made the choice to not have that surgery. Instead, I requested an ultrasound to confirm an actual miscarriage. They pushed and I pushed back with my choice. Not because 'it was my son'. But because it was my body and there was no way in hell anyone was going to operate on me until I was 100% sure. So I exercised my choice. When my second son was born, due to a medical malpractice which led to a low lying placenta not being diagnosed (the doctor refused to look at the ultrasound as she was late for a flight), I nearly bled out when the placenta broke in two when I started to labour after being induced. When I was rushed down and going into shock for the blood loss, I asked the doctor who was about to save the both of us (I did not know that at that point) to save my son. He told me no and that I was going to be the priority. And I cannot begin to describe to you the feeling of helplessness and anger having my control taken away from me in that fashion by someone else. It is about choice and it is about autonomy and respecting the rights of women and what rights they have over their own bodies. Now certainly, not everyone will agree with it. This is a highly contentious and heated issue. But at its core, it is about choice. And I really don't think anyone else should have a say or rights over my body other than me, just as I don't think anyone should have rights over your body except for you. And personally speaking, I find laws which restrict women's access to reproductive health care, to the point where women are being charged with murder for a miscarriage is such dangerous territory simply because women will now be afraid to turn to their health providers when they most need it (during pregnancy) just in case something goes wrong and they can be accused of murder. I understand the desire to 'save the life'. Believe me I do. But this debate is about respecting women and their rights to choose as well and when we get to the point where we are now, then all respect for women as individuals goes out the window and they end up being seen as mere incubators (such as the insane laws being proposed in Georgia for example).. And then we have ridiculous situations where women who are miscarrying or are at risk of death, being refused care or terminations.. I am not saying this to get in your face or whatever. I am just explaining to you how I personally feel about this debate and issue.