Rape, Abortion, and "Personhood"

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Nov 1, 2012.

?

Do I support this proposition?

Poll closed Nov 1, 2013.
  1. Anti-abortion: Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Anti-abortion: No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Pro-choice: Yes

    61.5%
  4. Pro-choice: No

    15.4%
  5. Other (Please explain below)

    23.1%
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  1. Bells Staff Member

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  3. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Well that certainly counts!

    You guys finally broke him. Congrats on that. You call him names, make insinuations about his intelligence, and he finally snaps, so now he's on the sidelines for a week. You got exactly what you wanted.

    God, I wish I could be a mod, so I could call people names without fear of reprisal.
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    I never said you were. I merely pointed out that you were attempting to find excuses for his behaviour. There is a difference.
     
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  7. seagypsy Banned Banned

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    1,153
    So are you suggesting that I should have killed him? He still terrorizes me; would you support my exoneration of crimes if I acted as a battered wife now? Interesting.



    I know they didn't make any claim to the contrary, why is this a point of contention?

    Yes, that is what I said. I don't see any accusations that anyone said other wise. I was simply stating an observation. Which apparently you agree with so I don't see the problem.

    Agreed, that is why I didn't accuse anyone of saying otherwise. If someone states an observation does that automatically accuse everyone else of denying it? If you state that the earth is round, am I to assume you are implying that I said it wasn't?

    I agree, it wasn't said by anybody, so why make a big deal about it. Clearly NO ONE said the boy that beat her up was her boyfriend. And no one was accused of saying it was her boyfriend, except by your mistaken recollection. If it was an honest mistake that you seem willing to admit, then I don't see why the frustration over it at this point.

    Um... ok I agree it's a moot point. It is an isolated detail that does not affect the more important points that anyone is trying to make.

    My reason for making the observation apparent is because I showed where Utah statutes on abortion make it illegal to coerce or intimidate someone into getting abortion. And since the only person involved that was convicted of a serious abortion related crime was the boy who beat her up,(the girl's crime was reduced and she was sent to a juvenile center, but for what crime was not stated in the article) I was confused as to why the boyfriend was not charged as an accessory to the crime the one who beat her up was convicted of. And confused as to why he wasn't charged with the separate crime of intimidating and coercing someone into having an abortion.

    I was bringing up a totally new concern (a concern that advocates the girl's rights) in hopes of moving the conversation forward.

    an excuse for what? I didn't accuse anyone of claiming it was the boyfriend, you position here is based on a false premise. I would be perfectly happy to put this confusion behind us and move on with the discussion.

    All the while you can't seem to get yours straight as I have clearly demonstrated. Noticing you still haven't answered my comments in red.
     
  8. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    The excuse for his behavior is that you and your cronies drove him crazy. You baited him into it. Does that make you feel good about yourself, Bells?
     
  9. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Actually, I wasn't even pleading any case for Neverfly in regards to his behavior on this thread. I just mentioned that he is good to me so that they can see, I have broken the cycle of being with an abuser and without the aid of a therapist. I never once said anything about his being banned, nor made any excuse for the threat. I actually wasn't aware he was banned until after I posted my response. I hadn't seen him all day and didn't notice his being banned. I didn't know what they were talking about until I looked into it.
     
  10. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    I'm not arguing it either. He took the bait, and now he's sitting out. But it was bait, and that needs to be addressed. It won't, because neither Bells nor any other mod can do any wrong, but that won't stop some of us from banging that drum.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,978
    We baited him into it by pointing out how and when he misrepresented scientific studies and facts throughout this case? Or was it when we would ask him to calm down and stop being so abusive? Or when we would ask him to support is claims?

    Or was it when we challenged his wife about what she was posting or her opinions? They keep demanding and asserting that they are two different people and yet we cannot address them as two different people without the other going apeshit? Is this a new standard? Perhaps I should get my husband to log onto his account and respond in kind to seagypsy's slanderous accusation on himself and myself? And then when he is banned for his tirade, we can blame her for it? Because, you know, she drove him to it?

    We didn't drive him crazy. He was acting aggressively right from the start of this thread. Perhaps if he cannot control himself he should avoid topics that make him go crazy? How about some personal control and responsibility and ownership of one's behaviour? Oh wait, no, that doesn't count, does it? Because he was arguing with a moderator. Of course he is innocent and poor little victim who sits behind a computer screen threatening to beat people up until they bleed on the ground. Should I blame you for when he once aggressively went after you because he felt you weren't a man or manly enough because you wouldn't shoot or kill someone like he supposedly could and then we got the 'I'm da man' rant that he gave? Was that your fault or his?

    I just want to know, when was it the accepted standard to blame everyone but the abuser and aggressor for their violence and violent ideology? When did this become acceptable?
     
  12. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153

    Agreed.

    The reason they didn't ban anyone for flaming and insulting is because they are guilty of it too; that and Tiassa said he didn't want to do what he knew to be the right thing in the thread. Bells even told Neverfly to "fuck off" very early on in the thread.
     
  13. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Well, hmm, we aren't allowed to blame the girl for the attempted illegal abortion that she tried to get. She was abused and so turned abuse onto herself. She joined him in the abuse, sure I don't deny that it shows mental illness by my definitions, but I hardly believe it qualifies for legal definitions of insane. Also Balerion was banned for baiting me in another thread. So I think he has a valid concern here.

    I'm willing to let posts speak for themselves in regards to all your accusations in your last post.

    Anyway, can we not PLEASE get back on topic?
     
  14. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    Of course you drove him crazy. You were calling him names from the start, and accused him of doing things he didn't do, like disparaging your son or your illness or any of the other claims you made. And don't start with the straw men, because I'm not saying he should have said what he said. I'm saying that you baited him into it, and should be just as culpable as he is (not to mention the flaming you've done yourself). I know this will never happen, but you'll have to listen to us complaining about it until it changes or we're gone. Or, and maybe this is just me dreaming, until you stop acting like you own this place.
     
  15. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    I find it interesting that we don't often see multiple members complaining about other mods. It seems Bells is the only one that gets constant complaints. Well there may be a couple in the physics and math threads but I don't participate in those and it seems there is a completely different genre of people who participate in those. But for the threads that are about social issues and subjective concepts, it seems Bells is the one that gets the most complaints for this type of behavior.
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    35,854
    Mod Hat — Notes around

    Mod Hat — Notes around

    It's one thing to try to draw the thread off topic with a manic rant, but the appeal to emotion coupled with a flame? And then the dumb-assed influenza and E. coli bit? Neverfly was looking for a fight from the outset.

    So quit whining and begging for attention. You're embarrassing yourself.

    • • •​

    We're familiar with his tantrums.

    He came in looking for a fight, and he got one.

    We see through both of you. I don't care how clever you think you are. We've seen this kind of behavior many times over the years, and no, we're not impressed.

    • • •​

    General Note:

    The bottom line is simple enough: People can either fight, or they can be civilized. And if you come into a discussion looking for a fight, you don't get to complain when you get one. And when you lose, no, your wife doesn't get to complain, either.

    From the outset, we've endured and even obliged a faction that seems to want people's attention anywhere but on topic.

    We can either continue this discussion, on topic, or scrap it altogether. It's quite clear that there are a few who would prefer that subjects such as the topic post never be discussed. And that's fine. However, regardless of how much effort one puts in, sometimes it's still just trolling, and trolling isn't fine.
     
  17. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    Tiassa, you embarrass yourself and this site on a daily basis with your half-assed pseudo-intellectualism and absurd arguments with the resident Conservative Straw Man, madanthonywayne, so you're in no position to talk. Also, dressing up your insults and flames in mod colors is about as spineless as it gets. Making your absurd comments "official" doesn't give them any more credibility.

    This is apparently difficult to understand, so I'll try to be more clear: I'm not saying Neverfly was right. I'm saying that you and Bells were also wrong. Yet of the three of you, only one is banned. Explain to me how that works, exactly.
     
  18. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Why not lock the thread? You have already declared for yourself a victory in proving to yourself what you already believed to be true by interpreting the facts of the poll you posted in a way conducive to validating your own prejudice. According to you, this thread has successfully proven a point you wanted to make. So go ahead and lock it. I won't miss the insanity at all.

    For all the fussing the mods have made in this thread about wanting to keep it on topic, they didn't issue any warnings for off topic remarks made by anyone early on. They also ignored VERY ON TOPIC posts by the most level headed participant of this thread, Bowser. They completely ignored his requests for comments or opinions in regard to the actual topic and only focused in on posts that incited drama. But they claim they wanted the thread on topic. If the mods wanted it on topic, they would have made sure on topic posts were addressed and infractions were given for off topic rather than participating in the madness.

    Anyway, I'm leaving this thread. I only came back because of assurances Kittamaru gave that this was going to be looked into and handled. After he agreed that I had legitimate concerns against Tiassa's unwillingness to moderate his own thread. It's impossible to discuss with people who will constantly lie about what was said and then call others liars, People who won't acknowledge concession, people without a shred of emotional or intellectual integrity. They are like cheerleaders at a Beverly Hills high school. Bullying anyone who won't agree with them and demanding the existence of realities that don't exist.

    If you can't handle a bit of opposition without resorting to the obnoxious behavior that has been displayed here, post your pet threads in a private group where only people who will agree with you will post.
     
  19. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    Strawman hypothesis. Argumenten to/from absurdity.

    I don't know, you're the one that raised it, all I did was point out that no-one, except possibly you and your husband had said that in the first place.

    And I was simply pointing out that nobody had claimed that, which, you apparently agree with so I don't see the problem.

    I also simply stated an observation. If I state that nobody claimed the earth was flat, does that imply that somebody said it was?

    You're the one making the fuss out of this, not me. All I did was make the observation that nobody had claimed that was the case.

    And yet youu keep dragging the conversation back to it.

    A point that had been previously raised, to some degree or another, and ignored.

    You have demonstrated no such thing.

    I addressed them.
     
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