Rape, Abortion, and "Personhood"

So her hard life excuses her abusive nature? and I actually retracted that accusation earlier. Nice of you to confirm it publicly. I'm sure my past is far more disturbing than hers, so I am invoking my right to call names, accuse people of being sexist when they aren't and lie to make myself look good, on account of the multiple rapes i have suffered at the hands of a black man, regular physical assaults at the hands of the same black man, having been held hostage by a Pakistani man in a Muslim country for a year, having been forced to watch my children abused by this same Pakistani Muslim man while in captivity, and facing a terminal illness of my own all the while.

Yet I somehow still manage to not be a misandrist, an Islamaphobe, or a racist.

Many serial killers were abused as children, many rapists were molested as children or abused in some way, many child abusers were abused themselves, many wife beaters were abused as children. I guess the abuse they suffered as children should excuse their behavior as well and we just try to understand them rather than lock them away and punish them for their appalling behavior towards others. Or, we can treat Bells the same way we expect to be treated and stop making excuses for her obnoxiousness. If her past makes her incapable of objectively seeing the world around her perhaps she is in no mental state to be a moderator.

 

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Say huh?

You have got to be kidding me.

 

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It would seem under the circumstances that his gf would abort his unborn child, that he would have no desire to maintain a relationship of any kind with her. He did not imply that threatening to leave her would be for the purpose of maintaining a relationship with her, He implied that threatening to leave her would possibly lead to his retaining his hope for fatherhood.

But as you say, any type of pressure to stop someone from using or doing to their body anything they choose is emotional abuse, pressure or what have you. I guess you are then against the idea of divorce maybe? because divorcing a man because he decided to put his penis in a welcoming vagina that was not yours is certainly pressure to order the man to use his body the way YOU want him to. OH but yeah, you did divorce him for that. So I guess you are just the same controlling person disrespecting of a man's rights to use his body as he wishes as you accuse Asguard of being.

And if those criteria denote an abusive controlling person, then I am that very kind of person, because if Neverfly ever exercises his right to augment his body as he chooses, by getting a penis enlargement procedure or a sex reassignment surgery, I will leave his ass in a heartbeat and he can just deal with it. Abusive and proud yep that's me.

I won't comment on diet demands, but withholding sex for any reason is the right of the individual. Or are you saying that a man's body belongs to his wife and he has no right to refuse sex. That is the same argument that my first husband gave when he denies ever raping me when I refused to have sex with him because I wasn't in the mood.

 

LMAO yeah even better, my statistics were from 16 weeks and he challenged them with statistics based on 12 weeks, better indeed.

 

People, let's just chill out. I think you guys are letting this stuff get the best of you. This thread should have been "locked" a long time ago, simply because it has gotten out of hand. Tiassa, are you going to let this continue? Are you the mod?

 

YOU made it everyone's business when you publicly described it. I wasn't even aware your husband had had an affair on you or that you were divorced til you publicly announced it. I guess whatever aspects of your private life you do not want scrutinized you should keep private. Anything you put in the public forum is open to scrutiny. You are making comments about Asgaurd's relationship. So unless you want to retract all your insults about his relationship, you have to roll with the punches when YOU announce details about your private life only to have what you post scrutinized.

But you feel justified in commenting on Asgaurd's relationship? His relationship is none of your business either so until you stop sticking your nose into other people's business you need not complain when we return to you exactly what you dish out.

I never implied what his reasons for his actions were. I don't care what his reasons were. I never made any statement suggesting that I knew what his reasons were. I only commented on what he chose to do with his own penis, according to your own narrative. But feel free to prove your little lie by quoting exactly where I stated his reasons for making such a choice were.

I only know what YOU have reported. I haven't stated or implied anything that YOU did not present in this forum. I am not making fun of your personal problems. I am only stating that your personal problems are not OUR problem and your personal problems give you no right to abuse members of this forum.

Do YOU understand now, Bells?

I have made no attack on your personal life. I have only stated that your personal problems do not give you any right to attack someone else's personal life. I have not once said you were a bad person for anything going on in your life. but you have thrown insults at Asguard for his honesty in standing up for his desire to be a father, by merely leaving a woman who would take that hope from him by aborting his unborn child.

 

I only failed in that I trusted that Trippy used relavant statistics, since after all the statistics I gave were the exact ones he reported originally.

"by your own admittence" denotes no dishonesty at all. Wow, by telling the truth we are dishonest now. Sheesh.

You asked me to stop. Sure. I did it once. YOU brought it up several times after I had already retracted it stating that it was inappropriate for me to have done so. Then Tiassa comes along and does exactly what I had accused. That Bells is allowed to mistreat people because she had a hard life. Get over yourself.

You know, you are not fooling anyone. Everyone accept those who are blinded by the pity you insist they have for you can see what kind of person you are and how dishonest this debate has been from you, Trippy and to a lesser degree Tiassa.

Go ahead and delude yourself in your own self righteousness. I wouldn't want to tell you what you can and cannot do with your own psyche.

 

Duplicate

 

Good point. But I doubt Tiassa will lock it. The mods don't seem to be willing to put a stop to Bells when she is on a roll. To close this thread would take away her platform to declare herself a victim beyond accountability.

 

Duplicate

 

Bells, the biggest reason you enter into conflicts of this nature is purely your own fault. Case in point right here. You're a liar. I'm calling you a liar, flat out and directly and I am accusing you of telling lies.
Why am I doing so?
Because I never attacked your son in this debate.
The second part of your problem is that when confronted for your lies, instead of owning up like a decent adult, you attempt, instead to explain them away. You rationalize instead of just being honest.

What I had actually said will be repeated here:

There is no attack on your son, there. AT ALL.
There is a reminder that in spite of the politics you push on this thread that you, too, viewed the UNBORN fetus- as your Son, not a glob of cells.
He had a brain. A human Brain. The case I have been making all along against late term abortions. The case that you refuse to examine in post 209, 233 and 293. The case that once it has a brain, it's a person. All the while, you were lying about embryo's.


There is no attack there.

It really is no wonder you get accused of distorting and yet you deny it- I wonder if you're even aware that you get the wrong idea in your head and no matter how much that's corrected, you refuse to let go of that wrong idea and repeatedly accuse the other poster of claims they had not made. You should address that issue instead of making everyone else suffer your flame wars.

 

This is my response to euthanasia question but since it is off topic I am putting it in spoilers.

Spoiler

Neverfly can speak for himself, as we do not necessarily agree everything. I do absolutely support euthanasia and assisted suicide. I don't believe in morality so if the intent is to call me immoral, it is meaningless to me and will only serve to make you look good to those who already share your perspective on reality. I believe morality is the construct of a mind deluded by faith in a creator. As far as children being euthanized is concerned, I think it already happens. When a child is badly injured or existing on life support with little hope of recovery, often parents are given the option of removing them from life support, ultimately resulting in the death of that child. I removed my great grandmother from life support because I believed she was suffering needlessly, being kept alive, when there was no hope of medical improvement. Her doctor, who's first name was Jesus ironically, agreed with me that with all they were doing to keep her alive, they were only delaying the inevitable and causing her extreme pain in the process (he said suctioning the fluid from her lungs was known to be extremely painful and it was taking place every 30 minutes or so).

You ask where I would draw the line on when it is ok to euthanize a child. I think it is a decision that should be reached between parents and doctors, to determine, taking all factors, including parental likelihood to be able to provide continued care, into account. If the parents and the physicians involved agree that there is little to no hope in recovering any semblance of qualitative life; if the child is little more than a vegetable or in excruciating pain that has no hope of subsiding, then euthanasia should be allowed. Should the courts be involved in every case? Maybe, if it is feasible to do so.

I euthanized my cat because it had a serious terminal illness that had him visibly in pain and suffering terribly.We suspected he wasn't well for a long time but the doctor never diagnosed it until he reached the latest stages of his illness. When told his full list of symptoms and his diagnosis, I imagined the times I had suffered similar symptoms, like severe dehydration (causes extreme pain throughout the body, especially in the head, throat, and muscles., inability to eat (extremely uncomfortable and also causes severe nausea, and starvation), extremely high fever (causes a state of delirium). His doctor said there was no hope for him and that he literally had no more than 2 weeks to live. I imagined having all those symptoms at once, and given the prognosis, I would have wanted someone to allow me to die, to grant me some peace rather than make me suffer another day for no reason other than to spare the feelings of those I would ultimately leave behind. I believe in a horrific state like that, one should have no obligation to anyone but them self, and in that condition it is more likely that all the patient really wants is to stop suffering. I don't believe we have the right to force them to suffer. Adults in that condition obviously, can, assuming their brain is still functioning reasonably, make that decision for themselves. But as parents we are responsible for looking out for the best interest of our child, in spite of our own desires. No loving parent wants to see their child die, No loving parent wants to give up hope that their child will recover. But sometimes doing what is best for them means going against our own desires and letting them have the better of two options. Suffering intensely for a long time only to die before reaching adulthood anyway, or easing their pain by expediting the inevitable.

I am also terminally ill. I have instructed my family to remove me from life support the minute a doctor tells them there is no hope for reversing my condition to tolerable. If assisted suicide were legal I would likely make arrangements to do that once my children are all adults and I have reached the final stages of my illness. After all it is my own body, I should have the right to end my life if I so choose.

 

Mod Hat — Brief notes

Mod Hat — Brief notes

I haven't decided how long to let this continue.

The problem, of course, is that if I trace the trouble back to its point of origin, the solution is obvious, except that it's not really a solution insofar as it will create other problems.

I wish I could say it was nostalgia keeping this thread open; this sort of argument reminds me of the old days, when people were allowed to tear each other to shreds.

Part of me wants to make a few cracks here about the value of literacy and the immense damage that stupidity can cause, but that really isn't helpful.

In the end, one thing I can say is that as a posting member, I am not in the least surprised at the effort some people have put into keeping the discussion focused on anything but the actual thread topic. In and of itself, that makes any number of points better than anything I could possibly say about it.

As a moderator, though, I'm trying to make a more complex calculation; one that extends beyond simply this thread.

• • •​

Do you really want an answer? Suffice to say, there is only so much leeway I can offer certain participants in this dispute as far as ignorance, innocent mistakes, and other such reductions of culpability are concerned. So I'm deliberately trying to leave my green hat out of this.

Let's put it this way: If I look at the dispute between Bells and Asguard, I'm not going to moderate that because I am very much aware of the history. They're grown-ups who can take care of themselves. Other people, who aren't aware of that history, though, should probably think very carefully before getting involved in that exchange.

And like I told Bowser above, if I trace back to the origin of the general trouble in this thread, my course of action is clear. Which is exactly why I'm not, at this time, intervening on any disciplinary level.

 

You said to me:
"Perhaps those ignorant of the past might find Bells a bit aggressive, but those who are aware of what has taken place in the past at least understand the reasons for the ferocity and magnitude of their disagreement."

Explain how that statement is not excusing her behavior?

Your response has got to be kidding me.
Edit to add relevant quote from me:

Now, that's an example? You claimed, falsely, that I attacked your son.
I've shown that to be a completely dishonest representation in post 336 (edit: because of the persistant queue problem, that number may change. Link here- maybe it will work to lead to the post if the number changes...) I've shown others during the course of this thread. For you to accuse others of dishonesty is suspect considering how your replies have been shows to be dishonest several times.
Your credibility at this point is heavily reduced.