Radicalization of the Republican Party & Where Does It Go From Here?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,420
    No they don't. not all counties and cities require the showing of ID every time. you only have to show id if you like like you may be under a certain age. it is possible to purchase both with out id. I've purchased booze without id
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,980
    Two Cents

    A question arises, and I don't think it's entirely irrelevant:

    Syne: So your claim is bogus. If they buy alcohol or tobacco, they require ID.

    PJdude1219: it is possible to purchase both with out id. I've purchased booze without id

    I'm thinking of a longstanding and common cultural reference. Indeed, at forty-two, I'm in the middle of this abstract rite.

    But when you're underage, the question is whether or not to risk trying to buy without ID. Then you're of age, and in my time we complained about still having to show ID. In college towns, for instance, bars tend to card everyone. I remember when it happened to my father in Eugene; the doorman carded him, Dad gave him a weird look as he handed over his license, and the guy explained that it had gotten to the point they were just carding everyone, since, you know, there was a university quite literally across the street. And Dad started to object, then thought about it, and shrugged because, well, it was hardly a bad idea, you know? Indeed, last time I was carded in front of him―just a couple months ago―he jokingly lamented that nobody asks for his ID when orders a beer.

    Taylor's. That's what the place as called. Saw Lavelle White↱ there. Great show. Er ... right. Never mind.

    But now I'm middle-aged, and it is true that I notice when I don't get carded, and other people notice when I do.

    The point, on this occasion, is not to concur with PJ. More accurately, it's not simply to concur with PJ.

    Rather, it's true I'm puzzled by the claim. Of course, it might simply be an American cultural reference, but there is a widespread, nearly universal among Americans, superstition about getting carded.

    While my father was puzzled at being carded, it was simply because he wasn't accustomed to the custom; he, too, went through the vanity crisis of coming to terms that he didn't look "young" anymore.

    It's a little thing, but everyone I know notices when they don't get carded anymore.

    The local pubs I frequent don't card me unless there is either a new employee or a state agent in the house; same with my regular grocery store. This makes perfect sense. At a club last year a bartender offered me a smiling apology for carding me when I had a few days' beard on. "You should see my nephew", he grinned. "Balding, has gray in his beard. Freaking out; he's twenty." And it's true that last year a waitress did a double-take. I get the part about not looking forty-two, but their estimate cutoff is twenty-eight; if I look younger than twenty-eight, they card me. I might not look forty-two when I'm clean-shaven, but come on, I don't look that young.

    "If they buy alcohol or tobacco, they require ID." Under law, sure. But in practice? Under law in this state, I'm required to have my ID on my person while in the pub. Even at forty-two, I carry it to bars I know, because they just don't need the fine if the state shows up for a random card check. But neither am I everyone; I picked up various customs because my first home bar was a strip club, and sure, we knew the owner, which in turn meant we were often waved through the door without a card check or even paying cover, but damn it, do nothing that risks your bartender's license, or your friend's bar. Not everyone I know is like that.

    It's a strange argument in the middle of a voting rights discussion.

    I don't know, maybe it's not like that elsewhere, but ... Washington, Oregon, California, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada; been both carded and not there. Louisiana, yeah. Seriously, though: Vegas? New Orleans?

    Been carded in Canada, too. Also I think I was carded at least once in England. Also not been carded. Don't recall being carded in Ireland. Thing is, they know the bit about middle-age card checks there, too.

    It's just a strange argument, is all.

    It's one of those things, you know? My first thought was, "What, does he never buy booze?"

    And what makes it stand out is that this sort of thing has been happening more and more over the last few years: Someone makes a strange argument in a discussion, and in principle or abstraction it sounds about correct, except it disagrees rather quite obviously with practice or reality.

    I don't know about the midwest, for instance. Does everybody get carded every time in places like Oklahoma or Nebraska? I don't know, I haven't been to Illinois since I was seventeen or so; never drank in Chicago. Did actually get into a bar once, though. I mean, maybe there are areas where everybody gets carded every time, but in truth I've never heard of it.

    Can anyone fill me in? Where does this happen?
     
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  5. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    So this supposed population of blacks that lack ID and live without welfare or public housing (that iceaura has yet to support) have also managed to never get ID'd for tobacco or alcohol? This is sounding suspiciously like special pleading.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    No, they don't.

    And in particular they don't need the kind of ID the Republican voter suppression efforts require for voting.

    Yep. All they ever needed was proof of age, which was usually their faces, as it is for most of us.

    There is also the large population of black people who live with welfare and/or public housing who lack the forms of voter ID the Republican Party is attempting to require.

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/texas-sees-surge-disenfranchised-voters#54860
    About 600,000 registered voters in Texas lacked the requisite ID to vote in 2014. Most of them were black or Hispanic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    Actually I think there should be voter id, yep, video and voice print, through your phone, because you should be able to vote through your phone, or any electronic device, anywhere, anytime, digital voting should open up for a whole week, not simply first Tuesday of November during work hours... not sure republicans would be for that.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,980
    Remember the one about the judge in Texas who was blocked from voting because she had, earlier in life, gotten married?

    Oh, right ... sorry, that was 2013↗.
     
  10. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,515
    Here is a list of the acceptable forms of photo ID:

    • Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
    • Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
    • Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
    • Texas license to carry a handgun issued by DPS
    • United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
    • United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
    • United States passport

    Other than these, what kind of ID do they need to get public assistance or buy regulated substances? An EIC is even free.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    In Texas. Special case. Ok:

    To buy regulated substances, only proof of age if they appear to be too young.

    For the EIC (the only "free" one): http://www.dps.texas.gov/driverlicense/electionid.htm
    • And a few others.
    As noted , these requirements burden black and brown poor people far more than they burden the white population of Texas. They are, in particular, not free or necessarily easy to obtain.

    Add that to the bureaucratic details ( voter registration names and addresses must match the ID perfectly, etc) - which burden the poor and/or female more than the rich and male - and the effect of suppressing turnout and voting from those not white, reasonably prosperous, and male, adds up to hundreds of thousands of potential votes in Texas.

    Any idea which Party would benefit from that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Let's get back to the subject of this thread, the radicalization of the Republican Party and where it goes from here.

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    The fact is the Republican Party has become quite radical. The question is where does the Republican Party go from here?

    The Republican Party has engaged in a massive attempt to suppress voting because Republicans don't do well when voting turnout is high. The party has on multiple occasion threatened the full faith and credit of the nation. It's attempt to harm the nation in order to further its political objects has resulted in a downgrade of the nation's debt. One of those who led those efforts is now a leading Republican candidate for POTUS. Another leading Republican candidate for POTUS wants to deport 12 million illegal aliens all while balancing the budget. That's pretty extreme. The costs involved, direct and indirect, of such an effort are staggering. Simply put, Trump, nor any of the leading Republican candidates can deliver on their promises. But that doesn't stop Republican believers from believing.

    The Republican Party has lost touch with reality, and then there is the rage. For many years now, Republican entertainers have made a very good living inciting rage in their listeners and viewers by peddling misinformation and demagoguery. Right wing entertainers have promised Republicans one thing and their elected representatives have delivered another. The problem is what Republican entertainers have promised isn't grounded in reality and therefore cannot be delivered by anyone. That's why the Republican Party has entered a death spiral of rage which will ultimately end the party as we know it.

    We are seeing this play out before our eyes. Trump, the leading Republican presidential candidate, has turned on some right wing entertainers (e.g. Fox News). That's actually a good thing. But he has yet to turn on right wing radio entertainers. We may be witnessing the demise of right wing entertainment and the demise of the Republican Party and if that is the case. What replaces the Republican Party? If the party is to survive, it needs to grounded in reality and have some relevance. And it is increasingly loosing relevance. It, long ago, lost touch with reality.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josep...lican-partys-2016-death-spiral_b_8746856.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...f-trump-means-death-for-the-republican-party/
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

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