Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by S.A.M., Jan 21, 2007.

  1. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

    And there, we can close the book on the value of Tablariddim's comments.
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  3. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

    Not that particularly care, but on what grounds, that I don't give a fuck if I hurt a racist's feelings?
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  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    No, not the racist's feelings ....but the very first few words, "Not that I particularly care, ....", tell the entire story about how you feel about others who don't agree with you.

    You'd make a great diplomat ....have you applied for such a position?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Baron Max
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  7. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Racism is not a message, it's an expression, like you know, Satanism. Would you rather someone hate you in secret? Why should haters have to hide their hatred and be forced to hold those emotions in? Don't you know this makes them more hateful and more likely to explode?

    Haters need a forum to express their hateful views just like everyone else. Just because you don't agree with their views it does not mean their views should be censored.

    If most people are racist, why do you want to try and make people hide their true selves so no one knows who they are? Why not let people be individuals and be whoever they want to be? If someone wants to walk around with a Nazi shirt on, and host a talkshow called Nazi Philosophy or whatever, they should have the right to talk about whatever the hell they want.

    Hate is an emotion, it's not promotable. Racism is not promoteable anymore than drug dealing, or being a thug is promoted. You think that thugs are forced to be thugs? They choose to be one, for whatever reason. Haters choose to hate, criminals choose to do crime, just like you choose to support censorship. What I'm saying is you'll always have haters no matter how much censorship there is. In the 50s, there was hate, and there is still hate now, culture has nothing to do with emotions. There is more hate now than during the times of segregation! That's because you want people to hold it all in, you make the problem worse.

    Racism is borne out of hatred. Yes you can say, that some people are raised a certain way so that they might be tricked into xenophobia, and some might be seperatists, but these are not the same as racists. A seperatist wants to live among their own race, they want to be around people who look like them, and maybe vote for people who look like them, but they are not usually racist. Most people in this country are xenophobia, and it's why people group up culturally, and ethnically, and racially etc, they might never have met anyone of another race and never have had a friend or dated anyone of another race and so they fear the unknown. That's the average person.

    The hater, the true racist, does not care about the facts. They hate other races simply because they exist. They will go join gangs, and go into other communities to bully innocent people. They might join the KKK, and might activelly harass people. That's a racist. That sort of person is not just hurting innocent people in other races, but they make their own race look bad by commiting these acts of violence.

    I never said anything about the virtue of racism. I said the virtues of free speech. Haters need a forum and place to express their views. They need a place to say hateful shit, all day, all night. Basically what I'm saying is, people who want to be haters, need an outlet that is safe and legal.

    Second, we have seperatists, these people need a place to live where it's only people who think like them. Seperatists need communities which can ban anyoe they choose from entering it. If this is all white, or all black, or all hispanic, or all whatever, I don't really care, but if they want it so that they decide who can and cannot live in their community, and they are willing to change the laws to do it, and it passes, then they should be able to do it.

    Do you want to live among racists and homophobes, seperatists etc?
    I sure as hell don't, and they WANT to live amongst each other, so why not let them? Give them a village, or city, or even a state, and let them have it, and give the other factions/groups a state. Do I care that gambling is legal in las vegas? No, it's VEGAS. Do I care that New Hampshire has no taxes? Good for New Hampshire. Does it matter to me if California is filled with immigrants? THAT is California.

    The fact is, people need a place to live. Some people refuse to live amongst anyone not like them in mind, and some people refuse to live amongst anyone not like them in body, and some people refuse to live amongst anyone who is not of their class. So just like you can move out of the ghetto or trailer park to live in the elite suburbs, some people want to live in an all white town, or an all christian town, or an all female village, or a homosexual village, what difference does it make to me? I'd say thats great.

    I've come to understand, that while we all can live in the same country and while the country is big enough for all of us, we cannot all live in the same place. It's just simple, some people want to be seperatists, and don't want to live differently, and I understand it and don't think we should force people to live with who they don't want to live with, no matter what their reasons are for wanting to live like that. If a group of vegetarians all want to live in an eco-village, we should let them, just like if a group of homophobic people want to live in their town they should be able to. It's simple, if you don't want to be around them, don't visit their town.
  8. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    Some citizens don't want to modernize. Look at those people who live without any electricity, and live on farms, and don't have TVs or anything. Are you saying they don't have a right to live how they want to live? As long as they are not harming anyone, I'll stand up for their right to live however they want, just as long as I don't have to live next to them.

    This is what annoys the hell out of me, liberals want selective censorship. So we can have reality TV, and we can display drug dealers, gang bangers, and all this crap culture we toss on TV, we can glorify gangsterism, and put all these "without" conscience type shows on TV, and liberals don't complain about that, but if someone on TV says the N-word, this is somehow worse than all the gangster rap which while not always using that word, shows the worst of the worst amongst the black race?

    MTV is as racist as any other channel. Liberals are racist too, they express it differently. A liberal racist will not say racist stuff, instead they'll support racist TV shows, and watch racial survivor, and buy racist gangster rap that promotes racist stereotypes about black people, or buy rock music that promotes drug abuse, etc. Maybe liberals don't talk racist, but their consumption is racist and based on that you can see that many are subconsciously racist and refuse to admit it.

    Don't you see, that crack and meth are sold THROUGH MTV, and through the liberal media? Don't you see that all this sex TV is sold through the liberal media? Sure, now we can have gay sex on TV, but once you have sex on TV at all, and make your way to gay sex, whats to prevent you from putting S/M on TV too? If you can have two homosexuals kissing on TV, you can have whatever else, so why pretend? Why have censorship only for racists but not for other things?

    Use your brain, you seem intelligent, all you have to do, is recognize that it's not about propaganda anymore, it's about expression. You see, racists are artists too, at least the racist media, and while they aren't morally right in your opinion, they are no worse than the guy who goes on TV with a bunch of gold chain, and women dancing around him like sex objects, and flashing gang signs. This is no different than someone going on TV, and wearing a nazi shirt, and making hand gestures and whatever.

    It's not the artists who "promote" bad behavior, the artists simply display the gestures, and put on a show. So while I do agree, that there are "hate" crimes, I do not think saying racist stuff on TV means you are automatically a hater, just like I don't think just because you dress like a thug, and talk like a gangster, and rap, that you are automatically a thug. A lot of people simply are selling a culture, and this is not right or wrong, it's business. It's how the media works.

    Just as, elite white people do not have the right to outlaw gangster rap, elite minorities should not have the right to outlaw racism. Just because you outlaw the entire culture it does not mean these people and their feelings will go away. I can understand how people feel on both sides of this, you have good white people who look at gangster rap, and think "goddamn, these foreigners are all gang members, and they all treat women like shit, and all have nice cars, and live in gangsters paradise."

    Then you have good foreigners who might see all this racism and think "goddamn, why are white people so racist? do they all hate us?".

    Neither side is WRONG, both sides are simply looking at the worst examples of each others races, and believing that these are the standard. It's not true. The average white person in America may be xenophobic, and America may have a racist culture
    but the average white person in America is not a hater, or a nazi, or a KKK member.

    The average black person in America, is not a rapper, sure gangster rap might have some negative aspects, abuse of women, abuse of community and of self, but the average black person works an ordinary job just like everyone else, likely never did any of the shit you see in the videos, and maybe at most they dress like what they see in the video because its culture.

    So you see, there are good people, and often good people can't see each other because they are blinded by the stereotypes. It has nothing to do with racism in our culture. It has nothing to do with gangsterism in our culture. Racism and gangsterism are old, and keep re-expressing itself over and over again. In the wild west there were outlaws, there was the mafia in this country, and many gangster movies. There is and was a KKK, and groups such as this. So you see it was NEVER really a situation where these people did not exist, they were always here.

    That's your opinion. I don't have any problem with foreigners, I don't care where people come from, I only care where they are going. But some people don't trust foreigners because they are Xenophobic, so be it.

    Some humans want to live in an isolated gated community, why should they not have the right? Why force them to live amongst people they don't trust or who don't value their principles? Do you want racists living next to you? Do you want to live next to them? Or do you want to live next to your own non racists?

    All I'm saying is that racists need a place of their own. I never said I agree with their thinking. I think if people want to be around others who think like them, they should be able to.
  9. Racism is a natural instinct to preserve genes that are similar to yours and reduce the competitions genes. The most powerful antidote to racism is education and exposure to other races and cultures. Exposure reduces fear of the different. The same fear which leads to hatred. Education leads to the conclusion that exterior differences are less significant than internal differences. This also leads to the conclusion that the exceptional and gifted are a finite resource and it is unwise to exclude any valuable resource just because of (insert your favorite reason to be prejudiced ).
  10. Racism is dangerous and I oppose it out of tolerance. Racism is an unwarranted attack on an entire group of people. I oppose any group that seeks to impede others freedoms.
  11. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

    Because you, like they, assume you are in possession of the truth.
    Your complete inability to see your own hypocrisy and indoctrination, let alone examine it, makes you second rate.

    And stop saying "not that I care, but...." - it's on page three of "Internet Posing 101 - a class for beginners". And it's boring.
  12. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

    TimeTraveler: have you really got nothing better to do than type reams and reams of utter and complete bullshit?
  13. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

  14. G. F. Schleebenhorst England != UK Registered Senior Member

    There wouldn't be all this trouble with racism in the UK if our moronic government hadn't flooded the country with non-indigenous foreigners in the first place. Multi-culturalism just doesn't work and will eventually lead to collapse.

    Personally, when a political party has the balls to promise a stop to that, I will vote for them.
  15. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member


    Humanity preys on itself, it eats it's young, and for these reasons it's headed towards extinction.
  16. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member


    Race has nothing to do with genes. You are spreading propaganda. The only gene that whites share, is a skin gene, big fucking deal. If it were about genes, then friends and family members would form a tribe and it would be something tribal, not something racial.

    How exactly can you describe racism when you use race as the concept to describe it? Next you will describe capitalism as a concept by using money to describe it. "Capitalism is a human instinct, because humans have a gene which drives them to chase capital!"

    It's not that simple. Yeah there is a greed gene, we can call the greedys, the greed race too, and we can say that this greed race is homo economicus. Then we can find some graves to open up, and study some fossils from some very rich old people, and be like "wow, a lot of rich people happened to be male, so maybe the greed gene is mostly inherited by males", and then we can look at their skin and be like "well since it's mostly white males in these fossils, maybe the greed gene evolved from the white male race", and the next thing you know you create a whole range of false assumptiosn and stereotypes about white males based on false concepts like race.

    Let's be clear, every race shares every gene. There are no race exclusive genes, and if there are, the majority of us do not have those super human abilities anyway. I mean even Michael Jordan has his white counterpart with his body type. Even people like Arnold have their black counterpart with his body type. Every white person, you can find a black person with similar genes, so what does that tell you? Race as a concept has nothing to do with genes.

    Family has more to do with genes than a genetic and static term like "race.".
    You want to know who you are genetically? Get a genetic test, trace your decendents, and you'll know precisely and exactly if you share an ancestor or not with your white or black neighbor, otherwise you don't even know who you are genetically and hide behind religious concepts which we can continue to make up.

    I mean, take it further, if you can believe in race, you can also believe in other things right? What about the super master race? The race of white people who are superior to average whites, the SUPER whites. Do you want to take it even further? Which family will ultimately be the master family?

    Do you see how this never ends? It just goes on, and on, and on, it's something that you might start thinking it only will apply to minorities, but it will eventualy apply to you, as eventually you'll become the minority too.

    So yeah, it's easy to see how this will end up in the long term future. Humans will be divided into tribes built up of families. Race as a concept in my opinion was never real. It was never like that in America or Africa or anywhere really. Do you think Africans all considered themselves to be black? They all had their own tribes and kin groups, just like the native Americans did, and just like Europe did, and Egypt, and every other civlization which lasted for thousands of years. Race is actually something new that did not exist during Roman times, or Egyptian times, or in these ancient societies because back then you were the son of whoever, and the whole town knew it, and knew you by who your parents were and who their parents were and everyone in that town could trace back to an original ancestor, sorta like how the Jews could do.

    How many Europeans can trace back to the same one ancestor? And even if you can, don't you think everyone else in this country can also? I mean just about everyone is mixed here somehow, it's America. So race is just cosmetics at this point. We keep it around for religious reasons, but we all share the same ancestors anyway.
  17. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

    There is no bullshit in anything I said. The media promotes the worst feelings in humans and it has nothing to do with ideology concepts like gangsterism or race. It's all about money.

    People want to feel anger, and hatred, and self hatred, and so you see a lot of it on TV. you see people actively hating themselves in front of an audience.
  18. Busy Banned Banned

    I like that combined phrase.
  19. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    I think you've made a mistake ....racism is about feelings, emotions, dislike of others for some peculiarity such a skin color (or religion, and others). Racism in NOT physical attacks! The emotions, the feelings of racism might, maybe, incite physical attacks, but that's not racism.

    What ye're implying is something similar to "...all psychopaths commit vicious murders" ....which is patently false. Some murders are committed by psychopaths, but there are plenty of murders that they don't commit. Likewise, many psychopaths might want to commit murder, but they don't.

    Racism is an emotion somewhat similar to love. Physical attacks are NOT emotions ...they're physical attacks!

    Baron Max
  20. infoterror Registered Senior Member

    How so?
  21. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

    Dont the BNP promise to stop that? Do you intend to vote for them?
  22. G. F. Schleebenhorst England != UK Registered Senior Member

    Well, if they ever become a proper political party....
  23. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

    I thought they claimed they were.

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