Proposal: Quran detailing stuff impossible to know without modern scientific gear

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by scifes, Feb 7, 2010.

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  1. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Scifes, spidergoat has first shot. If he's too busy at the moment, then it falls to me.

    If I were you, I'd either PM or give him a couple days to respond.
     
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  3. scifes heckle the snobs Valued Senior Member

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    what does it not being mandatory changy anything?

    yes i forfeit, and the 10$ is waiting for you on my porch till 5PM tommorow, if you don't take it by then i'll take it back.


    maybe...
     
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    It's quite simple: unless someone HAS to take part in something, or has already agreed to do so, then the word "forfeit" can't apply: otherwise, as my example with the chess match shows, you can apply it to anyone and everyone.
    Did you forfeit the position of president of the US?
    Did I forfeit the Nobel Prize for literature?
     
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  7. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure I forfeited one of those. I expect I can still work it into the CV.
     
  8. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    If you like, we can wait until I read the damn thing. But, I don't think it makes a difference. I will endeavor to understand the verses in context using the following translations:
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/index.htm
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I have read the entire Koran, in English translation - although I admit to skimming the long sections of god-bragging and unbeliever-threatening, which sped things up considerably.
     
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Yes.
     
  11. outoftime Registered Member

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    Wow,i have an idea.I will give everyone a bat,first one to kill the horse wins.
     
  12. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    Ice - either that was unintentionally hilarious or you are a comedy genuis.

    You made me spray coffee out of my nose

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  13. Enmos Staff Member

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    I'm pretty sure that was deliberately hilarious

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  14. scifes heckle the snobs Valued Senior Member

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    so you want to read it first or should we start immediately? whatever suits you, defending the absence of something in a text you haven't read doesn't seem like a smart choice to me, but it's not totally out of line considering the place we're in.. so as you wish, wanna read it first or not is up to you...
    so, what have you decided?
     
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think I really have to read the entire thing, I will be defending science and the nature of evidence, not the Quran, that's your task. Can we wait until next mon-tues? I have some stuff to do this weekend.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  16. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    Spider - I dunno - perhaps you should read the whole thing.

    That way you could perform some kind of meta-analysis.

    Collaborate with Scifes to collate all of the claims in he Quran that might have something to say about nature or make scientifically testable predictions - work out if they are scientifically accurate or not - perhaps rank them in order of accuracy - then perform a statistical analysis to figure out what the likelihood of those being simply down to random chance (i.e say enough shit and some of it is bound to stick), or if there is a real trend of scientific accuracy throughout the whole book.

    The onus is probably on the proposer to perform the analysis, but if you have read the book too, you could keep him honest and avoid accusations of cherry picking sections that only suit his viewpoint.
     
  17. scifes heckle the snobs Valued Senior Member

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    i'm afraid not.."impossible to know whiteout modern scientific gear" relies alot about the time, place, "claimer" of the book...what was impossible to know for native Americans wasn't impossible to know for the Chinese or the Spanish, not..are you sure you wanna go on with this?
     
  18. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    If I may semi-arbitrate, JamesR willing:

    Spidergoat doesn't need to read the entire book. If there is any reasonable claim of divinely-inspired knowledge therein, then it should be detectable in a given passage, since such scientific aims must be driven by specific examples.

    Moreover, no claim that I've ever seen expounds the predictive capacity of any book in toto, whether Nostradamus, the Apostles or Mohammed are the writers (clearly, word count arguments are excepted, but represent in their own right specific instances of evidence), and no claim by any Muslim authority that I'm aware of (Harun Yahya/Adnan Oktar included) uses the 'entire book' as an argument for its predictive ability.
     
  19. scifes heckle the snobs Valued Senior Member

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    for example, a guy in pre-Columbus north america said he's sent from god, and describes some creatures of god his book, which accurately depict the kangaroo or the panda..

    but if i were you, i'd take this challenge right away, cuz i wouldn't be afraid to lose, it would either be proving my previous knowledge is correct, or gaining new knowledge, that way you can turn any debate into a win-win situation.
     
  20. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Scifes, he's already told you he's busy until Tuesday. I recommend that you respect his external demands, if you indeed respect the topic and your own argument.
     
  21. scifes heckle the snobs Valued Senior Member

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    yeah yeah no problem..i said nothing about that..
    actually i might become busy by then, but the total time allowed is 3 days per post..i guess that would be enough even if one is busy..if we're not, as i said we might burn it out in about a day..
     
  22. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I thank you. Sorry if I came down a little hard. Sometimes I feel as though you have to bellow to be heard, which is very cynical in point of fact.

    Sigh. It's just not like East Korea. What happened to the dream?
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's down the back of the sofa, boss.
     
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