Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by scifes, Feb 7, 2010.
i challenge you.
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You would have to establish that the Quran contains a prediction that could only otherwise be known by modern science, that the prediction is precise enough not to be a lucky guess, and that there's no ambiguity in what the "prediction" could possibly mean. For instance, a spherical Earth doesn't require modern science to know- the ancient Greeks had several reasons to believe the Earth is round and even made a good estimate of its diameter by measuring the curvature of its surface. On the other hand, not only is the Quran not the first to predict a round Earth, but it's arguable that the Quran actually predicts a flat Earth- i.e. it was known at the time that the planets were round, but Earth was supposedly flattened by Allah so that it could become habitable for humans.
Also you can't ask "how could Mohammed know such things?", because then you'd have to give proof that an uneducated nomad named Mohammed actually wrote the book, which is highly in doubt amongst scholars even in the Arab world. Frankly I think you're just setting yourself up for a losing argument, because if the Quran really was a guide to modern science, Arab scientists should have discovered everything long before the West, instead of everyone having to do it the hard way through direct experimentation.
In fact I'd say in a way you're actually insulting Muslims, because you're saying they had this guide to modern science right in front of their eyes, and yet it took a bunch of dumbass Western infidels to make most of the discoveries (from Renaissance era onward).
thanks CaptBork, really appreciate your concern, but i'm afraid you've went into details i haven't specified (at least not here), and built upon them..
the op was simple enough, the claim is:
-the quran(whoever wrote it)
-contains certain details(not all details)
-impossible to know without modern scientific gear..
i think it's simple enough, if i provide it, iceaura loses, if i fail to, i lose..all in case he agrees to this challenge to begin with, which is trivial for someone who "claims" arrogantly that he read the whole quran, why, this should be a walk in the park for such a person..
i've let it pass once, but twice in less than a week requires attention.
again, thanks alot for your concern captbork, and uh, hope you're wrong on this one..Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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I will take the challenge if iceaura won't.
there is a difference between recognizing a pattern that exists and understanding why it exists
Don't forget to agree a format for the debate, if it goes ahead.
well, some people have balls, but have you read the whole quran spidergoat? cuz it would be hard otherwise..
the why doesn't offer much alternatives, not to mention it's not what we'll be discussing here, the pattern, well we might need to go into that a bit:shrug:.
i post, he posts i post he posts, um, till we finish?
guess it shouldn't be more than 10 posts each, and i'd like to keep the time allowed to reply in turn be....3 days? in case one of us gets busy..
that's max out to one month, not much i guess, or we might burn it out in less than 24 hours..Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
idk, you have something proposed?
The problem with open-ended debates is that they can drag on forever, without either side ever posting a conclusion. You should specify either a limited number of posts, or an end date for the debate.
I can just address specific quotes.
Quite. Complete knowledge of the Quran isn't required, unless it expresses some integral, composite knowledge that is being expressed and can be debated.
speaking of dragging on forever, if iceaure doesn't reply to this thread in 2 more days then i consider him forfeiting, losing, without even putting up a fight.
in which case the message would be to all atheists on board; "don't bite more than you can chew, cuz someone might just come along and force you to swallow."
No. You have already received other offers; if none of them are forthcoming, then I will eviscera...I mean, debate you.
Yes, precious. Yessss.
If Iceaura hasn't participated then how can you claim he lost/ forfeited?
Yeah right, bearing in mind that the message so far is "Scifes isn't going to risk debating against anyone else, especially those that have offered to take part".
Sidestepped by Scifes...
Hardly a message to "all atheists".
If you are going to regurgitate that stuff about the human chromosome number, then forget it. Otherwise, let's do this!
Whoa - apparently I've been missing out on something important. I got the PM, but didn't understand what it meant, sorry.
Re the challenge - I forfeit. Life is short.
spidergoat, geoffp, D, this is more than proving the thread title is true or not, it's holding members to the claims they make, in a thread dedicated to exploring said miracles in the quran, one comes by and boldly states that there are none in it (quoted in the op), that means nothing from one who haven't read the quran, but a devastating statement if he actually DID read it.. so i asked him..
he said he did, so i'm a liar then, i'm hoodwinking you all in what i say, cuz we both read it, our knowledge base is the same, but our claims are opposite.
so i challenged HIM.
and he forfeited, because life is short, because he didn't read the whole quran as he claimed, because he lied to my face..in front of you all.
as you can all see, from a personal POV, i'v lost interest as well, i've proved my real point, now, the secondary one, is it still worth it?
spidergoat and geoffp, i'll debate one of you.
james, are the outlines in #8 good enough?
Correct: and since Iceaura's participation is not mandatory then he can't be considered to have forfeited.
Or maybe I can challenge you to a game of chess, here at my flat.
If you're not here by 5 PM today I'll consider you to have forfeited and you owe me £5...
The bold part is pure speculation on your part. And unwarranted.
Separate names with a comma.