Questions about Immunity

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by TheMoon, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. TheMoon Registered Member

    Messages:
    32
    How can one tell what type of pathogen makes toxins in the form of protein?

    Why can one only make a toxoid from a protein toxin?

    Can toxoids be used for plant immunity and can toxoids be destroyed under certain temperature conditions?

    Can a toxoid annhialate it's toxinous twin, without a living host?
     
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  3. globali Registered Senior Member

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    what?
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    4,211
    lol

    it looks like moon is seeking a complex question of a molecular biologist and or toxicologist.
    perhaps an oncologist.

    im quite fascinated by the question though i barely comprehend it & probably take weeks to read up to comprehend any potential answer. lol
    blood brain/membrane barrier
    leukemia
    targeted drug delivery/efficacy
    many applications i wont bother trying to list them.

    pondering... currently there is a huge push for fungus based plastics and products
    this ability to balance the toxicology with proteins is probably a critical point in some way for use in food type applications

    e.g
    Fungi could solve world's plastic crisis, scientists say
    By James Masters, CNN

    Updated 1123 GMT (1923 HKT) September 12, 2018

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/12/uk/fungi-plastic-mushrooms-intl/index.html
     
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  7. globali Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    277
    maybe its just poetry. Hard to tell.
    Maybe we should just try to feel the questions, not to understand them literally.
     
  8. TheMoon Registered Member

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    32
    I realise there are a lot of clever people here and I thought someone might know.

    I actually came across these questions while performing a little research about the Black Death. I was quite interested to read that not all victims
    succumbed to the illness and there is some theory about whether a few back then had found a way to cure it.
    Though I will no doubt delve deeper into the subject concerning the above questions later, for now I will be happy with a few answers for my general
    knowledge. I came across an interesting webpage concerning antigens, in which was written something like: if a pathogen makes toxins in the form of protein, then to make an antigen, one may add a reagent, such as iodine to the toxin; heat it to 45 degrees and there you go.

    I also wondered if there is a list of protein toxins -- made by pathogens, for me to go over. At the moment I am thinking that the last question from the original post can be ommited, because antigens get propelled by the immune systems of multi-cellular organisms.
     
  9. globali Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    277
    sorry i didn't understand the question. I was totally confused. Although i am not among the really clever people here, i will try to answer to some parts of your questions.

    Black Death if left untreated has a 66% death rate. This means that a 33% survives anyway. So i really doubt that the magic bullets of the days doctors/magicians were really working.

    When a pathogen makes a toxin inside a host, then automatically this becomes an antigen that the immune system of the host recognizes. It is recognized as a foreign body. No need to add reagent and heat.

    You can perform a comprehensive search about toxins and their structure by googling relevant terms, for example staphylococcus preformed toxin, vacillus cereus, cholera, etc
     
  10. globali Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    277
    Also i big deal of a protein's activity is the 3D structure of its molecule. Heating at 45 degrees will destroy some chemical bonds (denaturalize it), thus change its 3D structure and destroy its activity.
     
  11. TheMoon Registered Member

    Messages:
    32
    Thanks. I found one source: textbookofbacteriology.net/proteintoxins.html. Will read through a few more tonight. But with regards to the last question that I thought about omitting: Can results of protein toxins vs toxoid be found in vitro? I mean in the sense that a recreation of immunising capacity can be performed in a dish?
     
  12. globali Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    277
    Thats very difficult. You can simply add a toxin in a dish in vitro and see the toxic effects in the cells.
    But to see an actual immune response, its a much more complicated process that includes multiple steps that happen in multiple organs, so you need to use other models, like mice, etc
     
  13. globali Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    277
    and both toxoids and toxins are just compounds. They usually don't kill each other or interact
     
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,211
    lol
    i get your point
    i dont math, so as much as i cant work the numbers on some things, i also dont have the numbers interfere with the poetry.
    lemonade with lemons etc etc ?

    "can i buy a vowel" for genetic engineering probably doesn't work so well when you can see an entire library floating in front of you.
    im only just smart enough to know i know as close to nothing on the subject as you can without not knowing the subject exists.

    "conceptualized emotive thought paradigms" ? now that's my flavour !
    i math like a 1 fingered typist on a tea break
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,360
    I believe these excellent lectures will answer most of your questions regarding bacterial interactions;

    and
     

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