Quarks cannot Transform

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Willem, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Willem Banned Banned

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    They are manmade but the universe isn't. So some version of the laws must exist at the enforcer, since we don't enforce it. The rules was found as consistent with experiment, so they were found in spacetime or in the particles.

    For example the law of a built house is that it was built with bricks and mortar according to a plan, the plan exists somewhere and was required to build the house. By the same logic, the universe must have a plan somewhere.q2
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    False comparison. A house is an artifact: man-made. There is a reason why "artificial" and "natural" are opposites.

    Go back to my example of the population growth. That is an example of how we can make a mathematical model of a process that occurs without any calculation being done. Do you claim there "must" be something "enforcing" adherence to this model? If so, what?
     
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  5. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    So by that logic does each individual snowflakes have a plan? That seems a bit crazy. The universe is basically governed by physical laws and the result of those laws is that you get the universe we see. If you want to call those laws a 'plan' I guess that is fine. If you believe that God set up those laws, that is fine there is no way to disprove that.
     
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  7. Willem Banned Banned

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    The two having the children does compute if they are responsible and married: they build a house sufficient for the children. The desire to not see their children with
    out a roof over their heads enforces this.

    Spacetime is the enforcer since it is everywhere and knows about all particles and fields.

    The snowflakes has a plan, they are the result of water's molecular angle and other properties. These are physically manifested and allows for variability in different snowflakes. The snowflake is made of many molecules and new molecules that wants to join the snowflake must be permitted to do so. So space must do a geometrical computation to see if the new molecule will fit on the snowflake's outside. Think: what prohibits a water molecule from binding at a certain spot on the snowflake.
     
  8. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    That is right (except for the goofy statement that space makes a computation

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    ), there are physical laws and everything we can observe is simply a result of those laws. That doesn't sound like a plan to me. Elements, crystals and people are simply a result of the laws. Humans for instance are not planned they happened to evolve as a consequence of those laws, they could just as easily not evolved.
     
  9. Willem Banned Banned

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    The Bible says: every hair on your head is counted.
     
  10. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Wow, now that would be a shitty job!
    What does that quote have to do with anything? By the way, if you want to start quoting the Bible, Koran, or other religious texts we have a Religion section for that.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    There is no enforcer.

    Your logic is circular. You think there is an enforcer because you assume there must be an enforcer.



    For example the law of a built house is that it was built with bricks and mortar according to a plan, the plan exists somewhere and was required to build the house. By the same logic, the universe must have a plan somewhere.
    [/QUOTE]
    Classic ID.
    "I only know of one way things work, and it's the way humans do things, therefore the universe must do it that way."

    Clearly, the universe is a house. Put the two side-by-side, you'd have a tough time telling which is which.

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  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Ah. So we're not just an ID proponent; we're a Bible literalist too.
     
  13. Willem Banned Banned

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    See if you agree with this better explanation for the snowflake example:

    The snowflake has a static electric field (electromagnetically activated curved spacetime). Now spacetime must do a calculation in order to determine where (and with what momentum) to collapse the wavefunction into photons, in order to send the water molecule along the curve of least action to the binding place on the snowflake. It knows the curve of least action because it is in touch with the snowflake and the water molecule and it knows how it is curved at every moment.

    I'm not a Bible literalist. It implies there is a plan for everyone.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    No.

    Water molecules have a polarity because of their shape. This is a property of the molecule. The electromagnetic field between snowflake and drifting molecule causes attraction. The water molecule has a mass and therefore a momentum - also properties - which determine its acceleration toward the snowflake. There is no calculation done.

    And yet you literally refer to the Bible when rationalizing your woo.

    There is no plan; there is only the 4 fundamental forces: Strong, Weak, Electromagnetic and Gravity.
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    And Woo Woo, the weakest of them all

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  16. Willem Banned Banned

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    How does the photons know to start existing at a certain point, with a certain momentum, in order to push the water molecule along the path of least action? This path is variable since the water molecule spins and gets pushed around by wind.
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    This is an almost unimaginably silly question. How could anything, sentient or otherwise "know" anything before it exists?

    Photons are generated from something that causes oscillations in the electric or magnetic fields. In the case of visible light, this is usually an electron in an atom or molecule moving from a higher energy state to one of lower energy. In the case of IR and microwave photons it is the vibration or rotation of a polar molecule. In the case of radio frequency photons it is electrons moving up and down a transmitting antenna. The common feature of them all is changing dipoles (or sometimes higher multipoles).

    As for photons "pushing" water molecules along a path of least action, this makes no sense. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
     
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Somewhere out there there is a buck tooth freckled teen ROFLAO

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  19. river

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    Not silly at all .

    It can't .
     
  20. Willem Banned Banned

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    Then space must "know" in the non sentient sense. Change the question to: "How does space "know" … "

    The photons must be produced close to the water molecule with momentum vector pointing in direction away from the snowflake. Then the water molecule is pushed towards the snowflake by the recoil.
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Willem. This is not how you science. Please stop.

    You know just enough buzzwords to make word salad.

    If you want to know how nature works, read a book.
     
  22. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    What the Hell are you talking about?
     
  23. Willem Banned Banned

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    Should I draw you a picture?
     

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