So you agree that you were mistaken, that reality can and does exist with or without humans (sentient beings)? Now, what "separate consciousness" do you speak of?
My point is that reality cannot exists without consciousness. The Separate Consciousness I am talking about is the Wholeness, which has been confirmed by Quantum Entanglement existing in the reality which we wrongly had imposed objectivity, but which now, QM has forced us to accept as Wholeness. There is a hidden Order, which we as David Bolm pointed out, which is enfolded on the Order which we have been analyzing using classical tools which has now Boldly stood out for us to recognize, but many of us do not want to consider the far reaching implications of Quantum Theory. So, my take is that you may kill all conscious creature, but since there still will be consciousness reality will still exists because its not human consciousness that has manifested this reality. After all, have we not been deluded by our consciousness that Reality is objective? Now since our consciousness with its limitation has at least lend us to confirm that Reality is united with Observation, we must ask ourselves the Question, besides us, who is this consciousness who would be left making sense of reality if we wee not there? Its the same Consciousness that has manifested the reality we observe, which we wrongly thought was objective. So, there.
My point is that you are mistaken. Reality (Sun, Moon, Earth, wind, water) exists with or without humans. Reality existed before humans were a product of the environment. Duh?
Sounding like BS and being BS is different. Real BS is detectable, case in point being your post #55. I am trying to educate you that your view that there is a consciousness in space called God, that must be present in order for reality to exists, is in fact BS! I repeat, reality is the Sun, Moon, and Earth, wind, and water. There need not be a consciousness for the Sun, Earth, Moon to do their things, as they do. Contrary to your belief, the moon will go around the earth whether a conscious being is observing or not. Case in point: You go to sleep when it's dark, and you wake up when it's light! It did its thing without your consent or knowledge! Imagine that!!
My take is that you are making up some consciousness in space that doesn't exist, in order to explain what you can't explain. $.02
I am certainly getting exasperated by your refusal to acknowledge the basic point that has been made to you so many times now. I do not believe you find this surprising. Look, nobody in his right mind can seriously argue that interaction is the same as observation. When a photon is absorbed by a black painted surface, it interacts with it, right? This event may, or may not, be observed. Do you really think the photon will not be absorbed if there is nobody there to witness it?
That, is one mystery of consciousness. Am not claiming that I am an expert in these things, because nobody has as yet realized the paradoxical relationship between reality and consciousness. If only you were "educating me" from a position of understanding, I would take your reprove with humility. But the problem is that you realy do not understand that this topic is an ongoing inquiry, and the conclusions have not been arrived at. So, the field is "open" But you, are still in your Classical "Box" refusing see that there is something that has happened to Science, which has forced it to consider Spirituality, and religion. But of course, the feeling are still strong against the "Traditional Scientists" Sorry buddy, you just found that your Scientific Couch, and and my Religious Couch, are connected to the same train, and going the same direction! And you got get used to our ranting. We cannot help it! Its just hilarious !
Its not that am making anything up. Am just probing with a bit of unorthodox curiosity that might get in the "nerves" of some scientists Of course the subject is infancy delicate and provocative. It is in its infancy because experts hardly ever pick it up, because of its "hot-potato" character. Just follow mine line and forgive the lack of professional "depth" The thing is, we start with the “Copenhagen interpretation” of the nature of subatomic particles as existing as "Wave Particle" So, as it were, all that exists, us included are made of "stuff" which are in a state of supper-positioning. The lack of "small things" making the "big things" we see, means that even if we "see things" i.e "observe" these things we observe are not made of "small things" Its basically an emptiness of Waves in Motion. So, one has to wonder, given that these things include us, it also means that this "us" are mare an emptiness, made of Waves in Motion. I think its here you must consider the implication of this assertion, which has been made through scientific inquiry. If all that exists are trillions and trillions of Quantum Systems existing in state of super positioning, a mare emptiness of Waves in Motion, what then, is this in us, which interprets this emptiness" giving it a sense of Reality? You cannot now say that Consciousness is unnecessary. If Reality is an emptiness, how come, we are making sense of it anyway? Its because we are conscious beings. How then did this consciousness arise our of what apparently is an emptiness? How could that which appears as "dead" give rise to "life"? Note, that by "dead" I mean that besides the live we observe, matter is dead. Its just Law, and Wave in Motion. how then, could intelligent consciousness emanate from something so.......dead?
See, you're making up stuff again. I said reality is the Sun, Moon, Earth, water, and wind, not emptiness. You're confused because you think there is some type of consciousness in space, but you've simply imagined that. You've allowed your imagination to fill the gaps where your knowledge stops. You've imagined that some God must have created this spectacular place because you don't know how else it could have came to be. You've chosen to believe in BS in order to fill in the missing information. That's what human minds do. That's why eye witness testimony is BS!
At this stage, I just want to say that this idea that "everything is connected" quantum-mechanically is wrong. Most systems aren't in superposition states or entangled states. There are many processes going on all the time that cause decoherence of entangled or superposed states. For objects much larger than smallish groups of atoms or molecules, entanglement is probably not a significant effect. Also, there's nothing in quantum mechanics that demands consciousness, necessarily. I'm not sure what exactly counts as an 'observation' or 'measurement' sufficient to collapse the wave function, but as far as I'm aware there's nothing to say that any kind of ultimate 'consciousness' is required.
This is the notorious Argument from Personal Incredulity. Just because you, personally, cannot conceive of something does not mean it cannot have happened.
Obviously you like your dreams, and hard questions that arise from what science has confirmed are not the kind that interest you. You say, the Sun, Moon, Earth, water, and wind, not emptiness. Listen, an atom is about 99% empty. And matter is made of atoms. If you could shrink to atom-size, to examine any of these "solid" things, you couldn't really find them if you could approach any "solid" material at the atomic level, you'd find only emptiness. So, your so-called “sun” Moon” and “earth” "Wind" "Water, etc is mare emptiness. So, why do we see matter as solid when it is made up of mostly emptiness? That’s the question. Why do we perceive reality when its made of nothing? What is this in us, which imposes sense of reality OUT OF NOTHING!
So, if consciousness emerged from matter, would it not mean that matter might also have consciousness? Or was it an anomaly attribute of matter?
Maybe i need to repeat for the purpose of demonstration. An atom is about 99% empty. And matter is made of atoms.That, is what QM has claimed. The logical question is this; if matter is an emptiness, doesn't that provoke the need to understand consciousness? So, QM, thrusts the question of consciousness to scientists, because it leads them to a singularity, where all logical analysis of reality and laws of science break down, and nothing can be known which is beyond the probabilistic character of reality at Quantum Realm.
So do you find my use of the terms Sun, Moon, and Earth an injustice, considering that you think the Sun, Moon, and Earth are simply illusions of non-emptiness that are in motion in space, which is also "emptiness"? Does it make you mad when I refer to a body in space as an object when you know it's really emptiness? Do you agree that a bonfire will burn out if you don't put more logs (fuel) on it to keep it burning? Does your car run on emptiness?
