Quantum Creationism -- Is It Science Or Is It Religion?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Eugene Shubert, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    1,067
    Definition
    A quantum creationist is a believer in quantum creationism. Quantum creationism is any happenstance or intentional creation event where a highly ordered physical reality spontaneously materializes out of nothingness.

    Theorem 1
    This definition is well-defined.

    Proof:

    Psalm 33:9
    For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood fast.

    Q.E.D.

    As for this topic of debate, I propose that quantum creationism is a religion.

    Theorem 2
    Quantum creationists exist.

    Proof:

    Prof. Alexander Vilenkin, Director, Institute of Cosmology at Tufts University, satisfies the definition of a quantum creationist.



    Q.E.D.
     
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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    That's not creationism in any sense. Shame on you for infecting legitimate scientific thought with your religious baggage.
     
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  5. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for displaying such unquestionably indisputable and deeply passionate religiosity.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. It's a strawman, like equating building bridges to creationism. "Hey - I created a bridge; it didn't evolve! And it required intelligence! I guess all those evolutionists are looking pretty stupid now."
     
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  8. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    It's too early to tell, statistically. Let's wait for a larger sample size.
     
  9. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    How so? Religion doesn't have a monopoly on passion.
     
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Can you please give a few examples of "highly ordered physical realities" that have spontaneously materialised out of nothingness? I assume our entire universe as a whole is one, but are there any others? If the universe as a whole is the only one, then I suggest you modify your definition to read:

    "Quantum creationist is where the universe spontaneously materialises out of nothingness."

    Note that I have also deleted "any happenstance or intentional creation event", because those two things would cover all possible modes of something materialising out of nothingness, as far as I can tell. Therefore, the extra wording is redundant.

    Now, you just need to establish that the universe spontaneously materialised out of nothingness, and you've established the correctness of "quantum creationism". That will be hard to do, IMO, because you'll need to show (1) there was an initial "nothingness", and (2) that there was a "spontaneous materialisation".
     
  11. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    If I could establish the correctness of QC (quantum creationism), then I would be proving QC is a science. But I believe that QC is a religion. Indisputably, QC is a religion because the nothingness that quantum creationists talk about is so thoroughly undefinable that no workable definition or theorem about the nothingness is known to exist. By comparison, everyone acknowledges that belief in God is a religion yet there is a mathematically precise definition of God as well as a compelling uniqueness theorem.
     
  12. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Why does a religion have theorems?
     
  13. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Because part of his religion is to confuse science with mathematics?

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  15. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with dictionary.com on their definition of science and with their ordering of lesser meanings:

    science

    noun
    1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.

    2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

    3. any of the branches of natural or physical science.

    4. systematized knowledge in general.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You know Eugene, it's perfectly acceptable to simply have it as a belief that a quantum event created the universe out of nothing. It doesn't have to be your religion; you can just have it as an unsubstantiated belief. No need to go full woo.
     
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  17. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    You seem to not understand that there is greater woo in the belief that quantum creationism is a legitimate scientific theory and not a merely credible religious doctrine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Read Karl Popper re philosophy of science if you have not read it already as it gives one a better understanding of science.
    Just the wiki entry will be helpful.
    Alex
     
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  19. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    "Scientists are explorers. Philosophers are tourists." -- Richard P. Feynman
     
  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Tourists are often explorers so can Scientists be Philosophers?
    Alex
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    And you're a believer?

    Really? Got a link, or a quick explanation?
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I see; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert's_paradox_of_the_Grand_Hotel

    You are using the term "religion" in an abstract context, i.e. an impersonal pseudo-intelligence, such as exists in pure mathematical forms (patterns). I don't doubt your applied searches with "religious zeal".
    But it is worship of mathematics, and while I also worship a Tegmark's Mathematical universe, I don't pray to it.

    personally, I am in favor of "Potential = God" as "That which may become reality" it would include mathematics. I like this all inclusive secular interpretation of God, which requires no worship of any kind.

    Only if you ask the Potential (God) the correct question in the correct mathematical terms, you always will get a correct mathematical answer. It doesn't require worship, only respect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  23. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    Not only did I coin the term quantum creationism, but I formulated a thoughtful theology about it. It's true. I believe in my own theology.

    Article 1 of The Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Shubertians, Circa 2018, affirms:

    1. God is the most thrilling thing in the universe. He is the greatest being that could exist without contradiction with maximally infinite divine attributes. Thus, it's inconceivable that God could be more wonderful, more holy, more righteous, more loving, more merciful, more gracious, more powerful, more knowledgeable, more infallible, etc. etc. than He already is.

    The first line is what I learned from a vision. What follows is a definition of God.

    As for my uniqueness theorem: When I was a child, I realized that there could only be one all-knowing God. My reasoning was as follows: If two Gods were all-powerful and all-knowing, then both Gods would know what each other would be thinking and Their minds would be intertwined with each other's deepest thoughts and emotions. If so, then They would be essentially just one mind in two different bodies. I have a left-hemisphere and a right-hemisphere but that doesn't make me two persons. Personhood is obviously the uniqueness of mind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018

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