Putin's invasion of Ukraine

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Saint, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,483
    What in particular about those are you wishing to raise?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,411
    As I said, most others likely won't share my opinion. I would personally prefer to have a nuclear war with Russia rather than allowing them to peacefully remain on over ten million square kilometres of stolen territory and resources, if they're willing to resort to a nuclear exchange in order to keep that land. In my opinion modern civilization is worthless if it accommodates nations full of dumb people built primarily on the rape and theft of their neighbours' lands and resources, as is the case with the Russian empire and its supporters.

    I'm in favour of the US, Canada and any other nation possessing stolen territory to return the specific territories that were stolen and/or compensate the victims with an independent state on equivalent lands. My only stipulation is that there has to be good evidence the specific lands in question were being used in a significant manner. My understanding is that Canada had a Native population of roughly 100,000 before the Europeans arrived, and that the amount of land in use at any given time was relatively limited during that era, so I don't believe their descendants are owed 10,000,000 square kilometres of contiguous territory, but they're entitled to more than 0.

    I'm at the point where I no longer view the collective Russian people as being worthy of peaceful compromises that allow them to keep what they and their ancestors have stolen. There's plenty of room within the Grand Duchy of Moscow for the entire lot of them just as there was plenty of room for their ancestors, they are wasting the lands and resources they stole from worthier people who deserve their own chances to flourish. It's just my personal opinion, but it can't be said that no one in the West is willing to accept nuclear war in order to impose historical justice on a nation dominated and led by proud low IQ criminals.
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,107
    Stereotyping like that is not helpful.

    What, exactly, do you mean by "the Russian empire"? Is it supposed to include all Russian citizens, or only the ones that support the current governing regime?

    When you say "a nation full of dumb people" who rape and steal, are you trying to imply that all citizens of Russia are willing to rape and steal? It seems very clear that they are not.

    You should be careful not to confuse a people with its political leaders, especially when the leaders are not democratically elected.
    How far back in history are you going to look? How many conquests do you plan to reverse? How many settlements?

    Are you going to return all of the US to its "original" peoples? Which ones? What date are you going to set for "original ownership" of the land? How will it not be arbitrary?
    Who gets to decide what is "significant"? You?
    Do you consider yourself personally responsible for all the decisions your President takes? Just wondering how far this responsibility-by-proxy thing of yours extends.
    I'm not willing to accept nuclear war to satisfy your arbitary sense of "historical justice". That's my personal opinion. When push comes to shove, I doubt that you are, either, really. Would you really be willing to die in a nuclear blast if it meant the land you live on could be returned to the people who lived on it back in 1500 CE? Or 800 CE? Or 200 BCE? Or [insert arbitrary date]?
     
    LaurieAG likes this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277
    It seems that the Ukraine Military are harassing Russian border infrastructure possibly in an attempt to divert Russian resources from the East.
     
  8. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,483
    Source / details?

    There are also rumours that Putin is really quite ill - physically rather than mentally - with suggestions ranging from blood cancer (e.g. leukemia) to parkinsons, but cancer seems to be the main one.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...retly-recorded-saying-Putin-blood-cancer.html
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-very-ill-blood-cancer-26952057

    Tabloid press, but, still, it's something.

    If he is that sick, does it offer an explanation as to why he has chosen to take Russia into war with Ukraine: i.e. to give him a legacy that he thought he could achieve before he dies. Without such a move, what would he go down in history as having done on the world stage? Now, though, he may well go down in history for all the reasons he'd prefer not to.
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277
    Nothing solid. There have been reports of attacks on Russian depots over the border mentioned in local news occasionally.

    It is why I started that thread "The future of Russia and China" a month ago. There was strong indications that Putin was in trouble with his health due to what appeared to me to be medicated bloating evident in some video takes. I thought it might be time to start thinking about Russia post Putin and to avoid to much focus threw in Xi of China as well...

    Now that the tabloids have mentioned blood cancer as being possible, which seemed to be a little too specific to be merely gossip and make mention of a serious limp (Perhaps due to a Bone Marrow biopsy ??) one could think along the lines of Hodgkin's' Lymphoma (Leukemia) The use of steroids and other as a part of treatment can cause the appearance of bloating.

    I might add that if it is Hodgkin's Lymphoma he would normally have a reasonable chance of survival (75%- beyond 5 years) but only if he took the time off to get treatment (Chemo therapy is effective in most cases) but because he is at war, time off or abdication is unlikely.

    It could be that he is making his last dash to fame ( or infamy) but who knows? Paranoia is evident, as is the intense fear demonstrated by his subordinates. (shown in some video clips). Every thing adds up to a rather unpleasant Kremlin experience especially as the war in Ukraine appears to be terribly uncertain for the Russians at the moment.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277

    You will notice that the major players by his side are all soviet era age groupings.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277
    Perhaps as a leader who brought Russia a long way into the 21st century. (post cold war, ww2) Now though it seems to be the opposite.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277
    According to Reuters, Finland and Sweden have made formal application to join NATO.
    It is going to be interesting to see how Putin responds, as I would guess it would be the last thing he wanted to happen.

    KYIV/MARIUPOL, Ukraine, May 18 (Reuters) - Finland and Sweden formally applied to join NATO on Wednesday, prompted by Russia's invasion of Ukraine and triggering one of the most significant changes in Europe's security architecture in decades.
    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fears-mariupol-defenders-after-surrender-russia-2022-05-18/
     
  13. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,483
    Turkey have to agree to the request, though. Every NATO member has a veto, and Turkey are not happy that Sweden, especially, refuse to extradite people Turkey consider Kurdish terrorists.
    I'm sure/hopeful that the two countries can persuade Turkey not to veto, by offering some assurances as to dealing with terrorism etc. But, as it stands, Turkey are a roadblock to them joining.

    As for what Russia will do, I'm sure they'll strengthen their border with Finland in due course, but since Finland nor NATO have any intention of invading Russia, it will likely end up just being a game of chess with hardware: if and when NATO deploys hardware into Finland, Russia will move their stuff accordingly.
     
  14. foghorn Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,006
    Will this now mean Putin can view Finland apartment blocks on the Finland - Russian border as legitimate military targets? Take out 'enemy' high observation points so to speak. Seems so ww2, what with drone warfare now.

    Yes, this is where the old Statesmanship games come into play.
    Couldn't the EU (of which Sweden and Finland are members) say to Turkey '' Hey, didn't you want to be a member of the EU ?''
     
  15. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,483
    Yeah, it's all political machinations and manoeuvering. Turkey's accession to the EU has stalled of late, due to one thing and another (you know, small things like human rights violations - and both current and former ), so this will undoubtedly be their opportunity to push for EU membership... IF it is still what they want. It's quite possible that Erdogan no longer wants Turkey to join and would actually prefer closer ties with Russia, and he's vetoing Sweden/Finland NATO bid to get on the good sides of Russia.
    Plus I'm not sure the EU currently want to acept Turkey, and that taking them in as a deal for Turkey lifting their NATO veto is far too large a price, especially when alternative bilateral defence arrangements can be made with the two - as UK have recently announced.
     
    foghorn likes this.
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277
    Certainly Russian military have proved good at attacking civilian apartment blocks... (sarc)
     
    foghorn likes this.
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277
    Just thoughts:
    There appears to be an interesting dynamic happening.. By Finland and Sweden formally applying to join NATO, Russia is under pressure to avoid the negative press of committing war crime and human rights atrocities. Thus whether they, Finland and Sweden, succeed in their application depends on the degree of Russian aggression. All in all the whole scenario provides a braking effect on Russian military activity and affords Ukraine a higher moral ground.
     
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,103
    theory is to cut off their rail supply
    i hope they hit all their gas & oil pipes and blow them sky high and hit every gas station, fuel dump, transit point,
    storage yards & warehouses where fuel or ammunition or military supplies are stored or moved through.

    Ukraine would need to nuke Moscow to partially lose their moral high ground & even then the audience would be divided by saying russia provoked it with war crimes.

    note: i am 'pro' anti-nuclear-weapons
     
    Quantum Quack likes this.
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,277
    yes... Russia, like most nations, including the USA are considerably more vulnerable to major disruptions than most realize...
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,103
    those 152mm mobile howitzers would do some damage
    also long range drones into gas pipes would be my 1st port of call to give them something to keep them busy with.
    then oil pipe lines
    then fuel storage
    hard to drive a tank with no fuel
    then drones into electric power stations

    that would give them something to keep occupied with
     
  21. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,516
    I feel hard to follow up the war situation, now has Russia conquer the East part of Ukraine?
     
  22. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,103
    im not pro this bit about nuclear war

    as soon as the long range artillery gets to the Ukrainian front lines russia will start loosing big time.

    i am wondering why they are not using the long range switch blade drones to target the artillery
    fitted with claymore(ball bearings) like fragmentation they would be real trouble
    more chances to hit ammunition and set it off

    maybe pre cut titanium waffle cut cylinder casing with high explosive
     

Share This Page