Purpose of Life

Discussion in 'About the Members' started by Hermann, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. Hermann Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    162
    Semblance,
    You show a quite intolerant behaviour. Whether there is a spiritual world outside matter or not is just a question of belief. Both the existence and non-existence cannot be proven. Science has the limitation that it requires a materialistic working base, which does not allow any access to a possible spiritual world. This restriction has to be recognized as a principle limitation. There were many famous scientists, like Albert Einstein, who were also deeply religious. Will you regard all of them as nuts?
    I believe in the existence of a spiritual world and have described in my booklet, how this can be easily combined with all proven scientific facts – including biological evolution (I don’t believe in creationism). You are not forced to share my opinion, but you should also not force others to accept your opinion as the only truth.
     
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  3. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, as are Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy merely a question of belief, but I see no mention of them in your booklet.

    A sprititual world, if it exists, should be as testable and measurable as the natural world. If it cannot, then it has no demonstrable effects, hence it exists only within your imagination.

    Einstein was not deeply religious and that is a strawman argument.

    What you believe has nothing to do with science or "proven scientific facts" and has more to do with failed attempts at aligning your personal fantasies with reality. Your opinions are worthless in this regard.

    The booklet is complete rubbish and by selling it, you are peddling snake oil.
     
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  5. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Hermann:

    Two questions: What provoked you to postulate that there was a spiritual reality distinct from this one? And are you interested in philosophy in general?
     
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  7. Hermann Registered Senior Member

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    162
    Semblance,
    Here are some quotes of Albert Einstein just for your information:
    • "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."
    • "I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice."
    • "God is subtle but he is not malicious."
    • "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
    • "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."
    • "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
    • "The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."


    Prince James,
    I have been provoked to postulate an independent spiritual reality by NDE studies (carried out by Raymond Moody, etc.) and subjectively by specific personal experience.
    Yes, I am also interested in general philosophy.
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    There are entire threads here dedicated to showing how misinformed people like you are in regards to Einsteins quotes about religion, you should read them before making a further ass of yourself.
     
  9. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Hermann:

    Might you be willing to share the personal experiences?

    What do you say to those who propose more mundane reasons for NDE? Such as oxygen deprivation? Has Moody also ever done any studies on non-Western NDE?

    But I am quite glad that you share an interest in philosophy. If you have interest in the topic, you should come over to the philosophy section and discuss some stuff with us. Also, I would imagine you'd be interested in some of the philosophical arguments for the soul and dualism, specifically Plato's and Descartes'. Have you read those?
     
  10. sniffy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,945
    Purpose of life?
    To live because one is alive?
     
  11. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    5,595
    Hermann

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    I can't remember where I mentioned this on this board before (maybe in Human science thread) but I aired a ponderance about the soul and the human body being seperate living beings existing together symbiotically. Thus when the animal body dies the other being (we refer to it as 'soul') can continue existing in it's true form (energy?) or whatever. I didn't speculate much beyond that. Q may recall the thread, I'm sure he was poo pooing it

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    I felt this idea would explain many phenomenon.

    I personally see nothing far out about the possibility of two creatures existing together so long (since birth and until death) that they consider they are one being and are not aware they are infact two until perhaps one of them dies!

    For example, the fish they have discovered in these deep HOT sea vents, survive only because a specail heat resistant bacteria protects their skin. Thus they enter and exit the world with the protection of this other living thing. Are the fishes aware the bacteria is not part of their fabric? Unlikely.

    I haven't looked at your link in detail but caught something that seemed similar to this thought process.

    This type of thinking doesn't go down well here, as you may have noticed.

    good luck, I'll read your link somemore tonight.
     
  12. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    5,595
    shouldn't this thread be in philo forum?
     
  13. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Q: I don't know exactly the depth of Einsteins religious adherence but it is obvious that the man did believe in a higher phenomenon he called god. If he didn't believe in a 'personal god' its only because such a notion is alien within judaism. There is a lot of rubbish on the net but here is a link that supports
    your position concerning Einstein

    http://www.eequalsmcsquared.auckland.ac.nz/sites/emc2/tl/philosophy/einstein_god.cfm

    Personally I am more aligned with your position on this. These discussions become doo-lally simply because we use words like 'god' and assume everyone understands what is meant by the term. Same with soul and spirit. I don't understand this fascination with life outside of what we know as life. What is the soul or spirit? What are we referring to? What is life outside consciousness? I say nothing but I am sure Hermann would disagree. Is the soul or spirit separate from consciousness itself? I doubt it but I am not a scientist.

    Hermann: I recently had a discussion with someone who claimed to believe in the detachment of the soul from its body after death and in reincarnation. She said that when her father died she looked at his body and stated 'he just wasn't there'. Now I don't understand why she would expect him to be there since afterall he was dead. So here is the question: Why does the soul, spirit, consciousness or whatever one would call it have to go anywhere? What is so frightful about nothingness, the end of experience that man from his humble beginnings has had to form a myth around an afterlife? If there is a 'spritual' life separate from the realm of experience, the material body, how does the spirit sense anything at all?
     
  14. Hermann Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    162
    Q,
    You and many other members of this forum are very fanatic materialists being unable to support unbiased discussions. In this respect I cannot see a difference between fanatic materialists and religious fanatics.

    Prince James,
    I think it is quite useless to share personal experience, because there is no general proof for. But my subjective proof corresponds quite well with NDE studies or other out-of-body experiences.
    NDE studies have been made also with non-Western people. I read similar reports from Australian Aborigines happened far before Moody. I considered also all other arguments like oxygen deprivation etc. but these cannot explain all reported and witnessed events.
    I will visit the Philosophy section next time again.

    sniffy,
    There is nothing wrong with it, if it satisfies you.

    Theoryofrelativity,
    There are certainly a lot of theories or speculation with some truth in it. It depends then on the individual overall picture what to believe and what not. We can built up our own worldview like a puzzle leading to a good and convincing picture at the end. Unfortunately many people (like all fanatics) have a prefixed picture and will automatically ignore or reject all puzzle pieces, which do not fit.
    I have put this thread in “Members”, because it is very personal.

    Lucysnow,
    Thanks for the Einstein link, which made things clearer.
    In my opinion there is no life outside consciousness! I believe our consciousness is connected with our soul and not with the brain. The brain seems to be just the momentary cage for it, which gives restrictions only. The brain is for me comparable with the on-board computer of a huge airplane, while the pilot corresponds to our soul. The brain and the on-board computer are only needed to steer the vehicles according to higher commands. In such view life after death appears as regained freedom.
    Quite competent (and not fanatic) in this field seems to be William Buhlman. If you want, you may have a look at: www.out-of-body.com
     
  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    Clearly, you're not able to handle criticism of your booklet or correction of your assertions. A poor author and worse debater. Too bad.

    Unfortunately, that analogy is worthless since the soul has yet to be shown to exist and you've failed to describe any mechanism that would connect it with consciousness, hence the plane has no pilot.
     
  16. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Hermann:

    I look forward to seeing you there, then. We have some great debates and discussions.

    Also, I shall check out the non-Western NDEs, too. That sounds like interesting research.
     
  17. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,371
    cross reference: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=56900

    I remember Crunchy Cat's mentioning an experiment in hospitals where pictures were placed on objects above head level, facing up, in the hope that someone experiencing an OBE / NDE might see them and correctly identify the picture as proof the OBE / NDE occurred. Apparently it hasn't happened yet.
     
  18. lordofkaamos Registered Member

    Messages:
    12
    Purpouse of our lifes: Pefection and pain

    Hi everybody:

    Nearly a year ago a friend taugth me to be lucid in dreams and it has been a great experience, no matter if lucid or no, dreams are great, and have great messages. Some weeks ago in a dream i found my friend waiting me near of my home, then i told him all about my last love deception, when i ended he told me: "People that fear an run away from pain caused for interpersonal relationships NEVER achive the perfection. WE ARE IN THIS WORLD TO FORGE US IN THAT. Live, live without fear"

    I left you with this message

    See ya
     
  19. lordofkaamos Registered Member

    Messages:
    12
    To materialists in this forum

    Hi to materialistic and atheist in this forum, i left you with some reflexions made for a rock band named 'Muse' from their album 'Absolution'

    Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist


    Eerie whispers
    trapped beneath my pillow
    won't let me sleep
    your memories

    and I know you're in this room
    I'm sure I heard you sigh
    Floating in between
    where our worlds collide

    scares the hell out of me
    and the end is all I can see

    and it scares the hell out of me
    and the end is all I can see

    and I know the moment's near
    and there's nothing you can do
    look through a faithless eye
    are you afraid to die?

    it scares the hell out of me
    and the end is all I can see
    and it scares the hell out of me
    and the end is all I can see

    It scares the hell out of me
    and the end is all I can see
    and it scares the hell out of me
    and the end is all I can see
     
  20. Hermann Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    162
    Ignorance

    Intelligent people are not ignorant regarding their future in life. They try to plan everything taking into account all possibilities. Why do intelligent materialists promote ignorance regarding the personal future after biological death? The strongly biased answer would be: There is no future! But what is, if this answer is wrong???
     
  21. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Lordofkammos: Not all atheists or materialists fear death. The idea that the end of life is the end of all experience isn't necessarily anything to worry about.

    Hermann: Thanks for the response it has raised more questions. You speak of regained freedom after the soul has left the body or disconnected from the brain, what is your definition of 'soul'? What is it made of? What purpose is this new 'freedom' and what does the 'soul' do after death? Does it go to heaven? Is it forced into reincarnation? Or does it simply float around watching over old friends and family? Oh yes and what about animals not to mention flora and fauna do they also have this soul thing?
     
  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    One can employ 'what if's' to every possible scenario and never leave their cave.

    The worst offence though, is to employ a 'what if' to something that has no basis in reality.
     
  23. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    3,371
    Then we'll find out after death. There seems precious little evidence to be seen before then

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