Psychosis ~What is it?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Quantum Quack, Mar 4, 2006.

  1. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    Nice to know, PHP. I'm disabled for depression, and none of the med's I've ever taken for depression worked (about 20 of them). Maybe that was because the serotonin-increasing drugs I was given weren't treating the problem, the problem being that the serotonin receptors (like the 1B receptor referenced in your article) weren't able to recieve the extra serotonin. This p11 protein will hopefully be the answer some day, if not for me, for future generations like me.

    Please, I volunteer for your research, if you are reading this.

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    Seriously.
     
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  3. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Cottontop, maybe you respond like a normal person should to the state of the world. The bad moods that I have been in were appropriate for the things that I was thinking about and the problems that I was having. If anything, those reactions were less than what reality called for.

    It's a weird comfort for me because it means that I'm not just crazy. Most of the human population of the Earth is in some way oppressed and depressed. A small minority plays the dirty tricks that cause the depression and warp society's thinking. Some of the things that represent "acceptable" thinking are just too braindead.

    But this does mean that I don't have to look for "therapy" or drugs. I do have to look for better situations but they are being rapidly eliminated by that minority of thugs. Setting the internals "right" is sticking my head in the sand and thinking happy throughts. We are in a situation where the living have to fight for the living. Those who are afraid of a small chance of dying are afraid of living and they will hurt others to prevent them from living, forcing them into a living death which we are so familiar with. There is such a thing as being effectively dead and still walking. Those who refuse to face the challenge of life the way those people do who would take away our contact with life are truly sick. They also behave in a criminal manner when they take away potential danger by grounding us and taking away whatever makes us happy.

    And then the closest thing they have to making themselves happy is performing obscene acts upon their children and starting their cycle of violence over again.
     
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  5. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Invert, I get the impression that we are going to drive each other nuts no matter what. Also, very frankly, I don't actually think I trust you very far to tell you everything that is on my mind. Deliberately using disingenuous methods of debate to see what kind of emotions you can get out of me is something that gets way out of hand way fast and does not win my trust. You do not have to use adversarial methods to get a clear idea of what I have on my mind. I am all too transparent.

    Purely from a species preservation standpoint, the most successful method of preserving many species has been by human exploitation. The exploited animals come to exist by the millions. Many of our exploitees are quite capable of surviving in the wild, especially cattle, dogs, and cats. Nothing about "domestication" makes most of them unable to survive, and the species would do just fine. If anything, food animals are actually toughened for survival.

    There are things that are obscene about the human use of animals, but it is not materially different from the way that animals use each other. It is not materially different from the abuse that nature gives them.

    Many animals seem to feel very good about living as pets, too. They each need their little liberties. They want their walks or their time in the backyard. Then they want their spot on the couch or their bed or their favorite toy. Big cats are often really good at accommodating themselves to a human home. It does depend on the human. It simply isn't true that only experts can do it. If anything a "trained expert" may be hard enough on the emotional health of the animal that the animal wants him dead. I've seen how animals have a sense of fair play. One of my guides has been that an animal does express resentment when things are going wrong for him or her. They get depressed or spiteful. When you keep them you learn who needs just the right amount of space and how a given animal can do quite well in a cage where he can see what's going on and he has space to run around and look different directions. You can see how they can carry a lot of happiness even when alone, as long as they are sheltered and fed and have some contact with friends.

    The only thing I can see wrong with keeping pets is that there is always room for improvement. The relationship can be a very, very happy one for the animals involved.

    The risk to human lives is minimal and no it is not of paramount importance. Its importance is much less than that of the survival of the species. Humans are thousands of times more dangerous to tigers than tigers are to humans. There is no risk that tigers will reduce the numbers of humans substantially. If you arbitrarily placed a value for the life of an individual tiger that was even one percent that of a human life, then the books would still balance very far in favor of keeping the tigers. About one tiger in 10,000 kills a human each year in the United States. I might value that human's life more than the lives of ten tigers, but I do not value it more than the lives of a thousand tigers or thousands of tigers.

    This isn't contradictory to the way I feel about lab animals, either. It costs some of the individuals something, but when a farm grows lab animals like guinea pigs, it keeps those guinea pigs in the best condition that it can because this is profitable. The species benefits. It isn't just the animals being killed for laboratory testing. It is the animals being bred in large numbers, then sometimes killed and sometimes hurt, but their numbers are larger than they would be in an equal physical space in the wild state, their existence is fairly secure and protected, and they get their chance at life. If it were tigers who were being used that way, the number that would have to be kept would be fairly large to have any for use in laboratory testing.

    Until such time as human society matures enough to clean up its messes and work out something better, I am all for the exploitation of animals for mutual profit for both humans and animals. Don't close the fur farms, open up more. Don't close the laboratories, support them. Breed big cats and other exotics until we reach a reasonably high carrying capacity. There don't have to be millions, but hundreds of thousands are not unreasonable and it is good for the species.

    The suffering of individuals is part of the survival of the species. It is good when we can minimize this without compromising survival, but we do not go and commit suicide because we are bored on a rainy Sunday or hypothetically because we might be allowed to live only until the age of 70 and then have to die.

    One of the things that makes this better is that humans usually love their animals. This makes a huge difference. I've had pets. They are very happy to sit in the same room or yard with a human they like and they feel communion and companionship and contentment. It's a lot more like sharing living space than imprisonment than.

    I also consider this an obligation. Humans should risk a certain chance even of disfigurement and death for the sake of the animals whose homes they invade. We owe it to them. We owe them survival in large numbers.
     
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  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    So, it's been over 1100 posts and nearly into it's 57th page. The thread file has been opened over 8000 times. Obviously this topic has attracted enormous interest [ not only by sciforums standards ]

    Today I have spent over an hour reviewing most of the postings and have been impressed by the participations. Amazing insights and thinking going on.

    I would like to thank all who have participated and say that I and I am sure most serious readers, have found great value in what has been said.

    The question asked, "Psychiosis ~ what is it?" seems to be one of those vexations that will never be completely resolved. I guess this is to be expected as we are talking about our fickle humaity afterall.

    To move things along;

    I was wanting with this post to ask the further question about how drugs whether they be of sacremental or mystical value or pure entertainment value play a role in the developement and persistance of what can be commonly referred to as psychosis and psychotic behaviours.

    The reason I bring this up is that I know of many people for whom the door to hospitalisation has become a revolving one due to their addiction and persistant use of drugs such as marijuana, LSD and similar, including amphetamines and popular dance party drugs such as ecstasy etc.

    The reason I bring this up is that a large proportion of persons demonstrating persistant dysfunction seem to point to a starting point with the use of these afor-mentioned drugs.
    Most patients seem to indicate that their first psychotic episode [ sever loss of a sense of reality] occurred immediately or shortly after consuming psyo-tropic drugs. [ maybe a definition of drug types would be of benefit]

    Maybe it is better simply to ask the reader in what way does the use of these drugs, play a part in the onset of serious mental and societal dysfunction.

    Possibly some one who knows something about how these drugs can generate aberrant states would care to post.

    There does seem to be a strong relationship between those seeking psychiatric assistance and the use of these drugs.

    In fact one of the strongest arguements against the legalisation of Marijuana use is this supposed link to persistant psychosis.

    Care to explore this issue?
     
  8. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Wow. It's really great when you can criticize a person for exactly how they are. Nexus, you go, baby ummph!


    existabrent
     
  9. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    When you are talking about marijuana, I think that the doctors are likely to see psychosis that isn't there. As I said on or near page one of this, I feel like "psychosis" can be anything thatthe doctor cares for it to be.

    If we haven't answered the question of what psychosis is, the question of whether drug use causes it isn't very meaningful.

    We can talk about more specific states such as anxiety, paranoia, anger, and so on. These too are arguable but at least there is some idea of what we are arguing about. We can arbitrarily decide that it is being out of contact with reality, but in my personal opinion this still sweeps up most of the human race. WE're back to talking about the human condition.

    The entire question may be meaningless period if we don't talk about whether the persons involved can be functional or happy. My own dysfunctionality is limited to certain situations, so am I "psychotic" if I behave normally in a situation that is somewhat sane?

    As long as they keep it vague you can never call them down for being liars when they choose to lie about marijuana use. If anything the marijuana users seemed to me to be more in touch with reality. I wasn't much of one, but at the time they claimed that I was out of touch with reality, I was actually getting a lot more in touch with it and performing better than usual. My mother simply found a chance to fuck me over good. Then the doctors and therapeutic aides decided to fuck me over good. This did nothing to erase my personal impression that those same parties conspired against me. Unfortunately they actually were. I would have had an easier time of it were all that just a delusion. I would have been able to realize this and deal with it.
     
  10. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    Of course... Here is a link that will explain a bit more For you. I think this is the route

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    http://www.molbiolcell.org/cgi/content/full/13/2/698
     
  11. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    I think that my reaction to Invert's rhetoric was gotten honestly. My control over it seems to be very poor.

    It is a fact that such rhetoric, such thought patterns, have led to humans doing horrible things to each other. Fifty or so years ago we "couldn't take the risk" that a black man might rape a white woman and impregnate her. Now we "can't take the risk" that someone might be killed helping to care for the other creatures that grew up on this planet with us. Achieving this illusion of safety requires terribly strict measures that are only necessary in the minds of those who are either terribly paranoid or who just want to run people's lives. Big cats aren't any more dangerous to humans than humans are to each other. They are trremendously better company, usually. Even the ones that aren't cuddly are often better company than most humans. They are also refugees from manmade disaster, a real war against their continued existence. There are a lot of reasons for good people to get very attached to their lives.

    One form of torture used by various parties has been to force the tortured person to watch an animal being tortured in front of them. Killings also horrify people.

    And then the rhetoric is about sending those animals to a better place, literally saying that they are better off dead. That might well be one thing you can expect to hear from someone who says they speak for the animals because the animals cannot speak for themselves.

    All of this works to amplify what I think of as a soul-sucking effect. The soul-sucking starts when a party who is in authority over a person decides that that person cannot do anything "right." Much of the time the judgement exercised by the domineering one is not of any particularly high quality. It is often abysmal. This just makes it worse. The fatigue experienced by the victim is much like having one's soul sucked out. What exactly can the soul be except for a sort of energy form that is shaped by every experience that that soul has? The life of the soul is from minute to minute, hopefully with the benefit of accumulating experience. A multi-dimensional pattern is built from those experiences and the person's reaction to it. This pattern is the soul, plus some sort of core energy. Just imagine that core as a point of light. The pattern is what the light expresses itself through.

    The victim of soul-sucking experiences negation and dissonance through this pattern. The light cannot express itself. You might visualize normal expression as the light being channeled through many optical fibers, altered in color and valved on and off according to the minute-by-minute business conducted by that soul. As the color and intensity of the light expressed on the surface changes, that soul experiences its processes of life.

    Soul-sucking damages that process and makes it respond badly to certain stimuli. Of course, with what I have been discussing, the very thought of it should be enough to justify a bad reaction. The trouble is, doing that damage to people is rewarding to them somehow and I think that this is exactly what rewards them. Maybe it does deliver energy from one person to the other. Maybe the only way to get them to do what you want is to do something like that, even when you are the one in the right and all that you are asking is for them to let you run your life according to your own best judgement. It is true that even one-upping someone is a somewhat positive experience for the winner and gives him or her a boost. The trouble is that impoverishing someone else is damaging to the whole of society, the human race, and even the biosphere. A game like this can be played fairly, where if someone is true and right they get to do what they want, or it can be played rapaciously, where the dominant ones change the rules and move the lines so that they "win" everything while exhausing the loser.

    And of course the chronic loser is going to have trouble knowing what to do when he has a winning hand.

    I can only see, these days, the anti-animal sentiment as a life-sucking thing. The people who moan, bitch, and whine about this are intent on destroying the life force because they see it as a threat and a source of pain. They see the animals and other humans as the same kind of threat and source of pain, so they do things to control them. By "control" I mean they threaten and murder others into submission. They see people as weird who can walk up to a large animal and gain what seems to be immediate submission without threats or beatings. What do those animals submit to? They submit to friendship and love, so that the most dominant animals are the ones lying on their backs soliciting petting, and you'd better damn well do it, too.

    Humans who have become mentally diseased have replaced the physical, natural affection with pain and fear. They see the pain and fear as moral and the natural affection as obscene. Those of us who are beaten down enough wind up either on their side or cooperating with their side. Don't try to kid me. Most of us experience being beaten down that way.
     
  12. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    I have found this dark Place in my soul lately. And... My Psychosis has slipped through.
    How can this happen I wonder? You know.... ? Because I have tried so hard. Stayed on my medicine... I have smiled, and tried to achieve and accomplish things. No one has made me angry...

    I feel Punished some how. If that makes sense. But I am not sure what I did WRONG to BE so punished. I have tried 3 times to take myself... I even read what might work.
    And Nothing. That Shows either I have an angel, or god is watching, or Buddha knows it's not my Time. It could also be the deep Prayers from Diamond my Muslim friend.
    Or the Wise Beautiful Words Of Invert Nexus...
    But yet here I am, Still scared... Wondering what is real and right? reaching out with out of having to be locked away again. What I see and hear is irrelevant because I know it is not true. Or Real... But it does heighten the Anxiety and fear.

    But.... I feel so punished damn it. I don't want to live like this........ The more time Goes by the more afraid I fear I become. I slit my wrists last week... I am terrified to now because I had some kind of family intervention to stop me... and that's when I got my ultimatum.
    So.. What the Hell is it? Why does it come and happen to some, and not every one else?
    Is it that I fear it so badly that I respond to it they way I do? Or is it because people truly don't normally go through this?
    No Need to off counseling I have that. But I Don't want to go back to the Asylum.
    Maybe I did pick up my father's schizophrenia?.............................. But I don't know, all I know is how afraid I am.
     
  13. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    7,658
    Post edited - I'm not out to cause offence..

    Find yourself some good friends and try to be positive. A postitive outlook breeds a positive response and the cycle becomes self-reinforcing, but you need to initiate it.

    Don't bother to reply - I'm not the friend you need and pouring out your all your negative feelings on an internet forum can only be damaging and is no substitute for a face-to-face talk with someone who understands you and who cares about you.

    Hope everything turns out ok.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2006
  14. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks for the edit, redarmy11.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2006
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Tarah,
    I am sorry to hear that you are travelling rough at the moment. I understand that you are attempting to deal with the difficult reality of your predicament.

    Is it possible however for you to delay or postpone your decision to depart this reality until after your children pass their 18th birthday?
    Is it possible that you could focus on these future dates to grant you a purpose to your suffering?

    Is it possible give your self a reason to endure?

    For what I see is a person who can see no purpose in her sufference and possibly if she can see a reason for her suffering she may find a reason for pleasure as well.

    Start planning for their 18th birthdays now, try to imagine how much wiser and older they will be and how they also look to the future with certain insecurities and fears.

    Aim even further and think of grand children and what names you could suggest for them.

    Give reality a chance to show it deserved and deserves your attention, with out conditions. Unconditionally ask that you may be allowed to see just a mere 12 minutes of sunshine as I did many years ago.

    You will be surprised I think by how often reality will grant your wish for 12 minutes. Eventually you will see those 12 minutes become a lifetime.......

    Can you promise yourself to wait until your children have majored?
     
  16. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    OK, Platonica. You're lost and you're looking for something.

    Don't look for it in one of my depressing rants. I'm too up and down in my writings. I appreciate it that you are up when something you read is uplifting, but when you read something depressing it slams you right down again, too far.

    It is time for you to find joy and hang on to it. You are entitled. Even if everything you've been fed about how bad you are were true, you are still entitled. Find out who you are and hang on to it. Find out how you can believe yourself to be worthwhile, and hang on to that.

    Here is one very important thing: If you fall down, pick yourself up again and go on. If someone rags on you, tell them you don't have time for them because you have things to do, then do them. Start getting ahead of events so that you have solutions ready before someone asks for them, and start controlling things that are yours to control, even if you just start with your hair. There are many little things involved in making a life. Ordering those little things and taking care of them is what will lead you where you are going. You will find your pathway among those things.

    I have to ask you, like I've had to ask other people, to take care of yourself. You know I'm a bit messed up, but in the last few years I personally have intervened in the lives of several people, like I wish I could in yours, and brought them into the light. This isn't the religious type of light, but more into the light of them taking care of themselves, getting jobs, and so on.

    Hell, I'm beginning to believe that you are living out the worst fears of other people. That could just be me projecting, I know I've done that. You have to start working the miracles in your own life and make them see that you can do stuff. If they really want to "intervene" then they need to be willing to take the children for a while, if they will do so without treating you like a criminal, and give you some real rest, and work with you as they would with an adult who maybe just needs a little on the job training in the business of life. They should also take you out for your favorite treat once in a while and talk about something that does not include anyone's problems.
     
  17. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Amazing thread!

    ...But, I'm lost... Geez all the sentiment here. PHP, guys i'm sorry i'm such a pea head.
    Positive thinking theory thread is also interesting sometimes. I see it as a chatter in the back of my head

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    i tell ya
     
  18. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    It isn't just positive thinking, Brent. You have to put a pattern to it.
     
  19. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    ......................... Something Will happen Eventually..... This I know, from the tears on my Pillow, to the fits I throw.... Every thing laced in harmony reconnects once it's torn, whether I am healthy, or feeling forlorn..... I am not that strong at times to recognize my greatness, but such is this disease when stuck in his clutches......
    It never makes things any less sad, when you know you are mad... But to pay penance for something so strong and dark..... The things they don't see... The ones Who Toy and play with me.... Am I a rag doll in some Twisted Limbo? a child of Fate's Favorite toy? Or is this to much egotism that I just feel a Part in his ploy?.......................................
    Sleep he leaves me, and I don't feel any more........ the Darkness is illuminated to my mind, I am my dreams own Whore..... So To call this as it is, and expect that it's chemical makes me wonder....... Happiness' is chemicals too? Faith? Perhaps Gods way to Launder the things that mean nothing in absence of beauty. Every thing Needs a cleansing... But the blood should remain in the Vein............
    So I twirl in my Frenzy and beckon Death or Life to come... Don't leave me here in this limbo any more, let us all out, not just some....
    Why would we have to learn this, when no one else can touch it? Why should we cry tears full enough to Fill a pit. A Pond to swim in, and a light too Dark to see... Why can't I just be left alone? why Can't we just let Be?....... I know the "They's" are not there in the eyes of people who can't see them. Does that mean they are not there? And the ones who can, have a different interpretation. Based on our experiences I can say this, most of the time, they seem to pumble us with fists.... Where are the angles? Gods? a Protector.
    Are we all alone in this desolate sector?.... I know I need help, I have no where to go.
    should I leave, all of my things have been threatened to be gone in one throw.
    I Start over to start over again, all I wanted was to feel a sense of Freedom, just till the end. I have no more messages Then this to hand out..... I know I sound Childish, like a sad little Pout. But I am scared again and I hate this so much...... I was only reaching out to find me a kindred so that I might Feel a touch...................
    It's not that Im ungrateful for every thing You have all Given... Some people appear sane enough until through darkness they are driven. I was told the children would be safer, perhaps if is was gone.... To another prison I despise though haven't stayed in one for so long..... Im sucked in my Limericks because I miss where I was... I am trapped inside behind Word barded doors. I am not aloud to go out with out an escort.... I would cry My own blood if I could, that statement I should retort.....
    Listen Every thing I am Shifts like a shadow... Some where out there, something is the matter. I just can't find it yet... I don't know what to do, but Im tired of this battle inside, come on, wouldn't you? ....... Some say that's selfish that I should think Of others.... I do this often, the things I have missed in me that Were Never Discovered..... I don't expect any of you to understand, but I thank you for your sentiments, and lack of Commands...
    I will pull through this once again... As long as I don't take a short cut, just to make it End.

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  20. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Happiness is in the force of life expressing itself.
     
  21. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Thanks for that metakron.
    I wish someone could tell me that.
     
  22. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

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    Keep sharing PHP. We are listening. X
     
  23. jshatz Registered Member

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    I am PHP's sister.

    If you are out there Tara, we are worried about you and love you very much. PLEASE let us (me) know you are safe. There is nothing I want more than to share our conversations again. Your disappearance has saddened me deeply.
     

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