Psychology of Conspiracy Theorists

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by James R, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    *Sigh*

    This is basic WWII history, MR.

    The world knew. The US was also informed of what the Nazis were doing.

    Hitler and his party never ever hid it. In fact, the final solution and the extermination of Jews, the Roma and other non-Aryans was never not made public in Germany and the world knew.

    In August 1942, the State Department received a report sent by Gerhart Riegner, the Geneva-based representative of the World Jewish Congress (WJC). The report revealed that the Germans were implementing a policy to physically annihilate the Jews of Europe. Department officials declined to pass on the report to its intended recipient, American Jewish leader Stephen Wise, who was President of the World Jewish Congress.

    Despite the State Department's delay in publicizing the mass murder, that same month Wise received the report via British channels. He sought permission from the State Department to make its contents public. Undersecretary of State Sumner Welles asked Wise not to publicize the information until the State Department confirmed it. Wise agreed and after three months the State Department notified him that its sources had confirmation. On November 24, 1942, Wise held a press conference to announce that Nazi Germany was implementing a policy to annihilate the European Jews. A few weeks later, on December 17, the United States, Great Britain, and ten other Allied governments issued a declaration denouncing Nazi Germany's intention to murder the Jews of Europe. The declaration warned Nazi Germany that it would be held responsible for these crimes.

    US PRESS COVERAGE OF THE “FINAL SOLUTION”

    During the era of the Holocaust, the American press did not always publicize reports of Nazi atrocities in full or with prominent placement. For example, the New York Times, the nation's leading newspaper, generally deemphasized the murder of the Jews in its news coverage. The US press had reported on Nazi violence against Jews in Germany as early as 1933. It covered extensively the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 and the expanded German antisemitic legislation of 1938 and 1939. The nationwide state-sponsored violence of November 9-10, 1938, known as Kristallnacht (Night of Crystal), made front page news in dailies across the US as did Hitler's infamous prediction, expressed to the Reichstag (German parliament) on January 30, 1939, that a new world war would mean the annihilation of the Jewish “race.”

    As the magnitude of anti-Jewish violence increased in 1939-1941, many American newspapers ran descriptions of German shooting operations, first in Poland and later after the invasion of the Soviet Union. The ethnic identity of the victims was not always made clear. Some reports described German mass murder operations with the word "extermination." As early as July 2, 1942, the New York Timesreported on the operations of the killing center in Chelmno, based on sources from the Polish underground. The article, however, appeared on page six of the newspaper. Although the New York Times covered the December 1942 statement of the Allies condemning the mass murder of European Jews on its front page, it placed coverage of the more specific information released by Wise on page ten, significantly minimizing its importance
    .​


    Despite this, the US still restricted immigration of Jews trying to escape Europe and the Nazis. When the Final Solution started to be put into effect, the number of Jews trying to gain entry to the US as refugees virtually stopped, for obvious reasons.

    Everyone knew what they were planning to do and what they were doing. The shock was seeing the survivors in the camps, and witnessing with their own eyes the actual horror of what the Nazis had done. That, however, does not mean that they did not know it was going on or where.

    The British were listening in on the Nazis and intercepting their radio transmissions and decoding them. Among what they were decoding and intercepting were the tallies of people killed in the concentration camps on a daily basis, even down to the number of Jews, Poles, politicians, etc being killed every day. Not only that, they also knew which camps were getting what and when, how many were arriving on trains to each camps each day. The Nazis were very obsessed with keeping records and the British intercepted and decoded so much of it, that for you to declare they did not know is somewhat ridiculous.



    Everyone knew it was going on MR. Everyone knew what they did, how they did it and why.

    To declare it was super secret and no one knew is you attempting to rewrite history and perhaps to even excuse those who knew it was going on and who turned a blind eye to it.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    Not only was it not kept a secret, but when the allies had a chance to bomb the rail lines leading to Auschwitz, they ignored them as they flew over them.

    It was never kept a secret, MR.

    Everyone knew what they were planning and even how they intended to do it.
     
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  5. Kittamaru Suppose it makes sense. Wearing a bit thin. Valued Senior Member

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    If the Nazi's were trying to keep the methodical extermination of the so-called "undesirable races" a secret, then they were about as subtle as the goddamn Kool-Aide Man!

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    Which is to say, not at all.
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "Nazi policy did a great deal to facilitate denial of the Holocaust even as the killing operation unfolded across German-occupied Europe during World War II.

    The Holocaust was a state secret in Nazi Germany. The Germans wrote down as little as possible. Most of the killing orders were verbal, particularly at the highest levels. Hitler's order to kill Jews was issued only on a need-to-know basis. The Nazi leaders generally avoided detailed planning of killing operations, preferring to proceed in a systematic but often improvised manner. The Germans destroyed most documentation that did exist before the end of the war. The documents that survived and related directly to the killing program were virtually all classified and stamped “Geheime Reichssache” (Top Secret), requiring special handling and destruction to prevent capture by the enemy. Heinrich Himmler, Reich Leader of the SS and Chief of the German Police, said in a secret speech to SS generals in Posen in 1943 that the mass murder of the European Jews was a secret, never to be recorded.

    In order to hide the killing operation as much as possible from the uninitiated, Hitler ordered that the killings not be spoken of directly in German documentation or in public statements. Instead, the Germans used codenames and neutral-sounding terms for the killing process. In Nazi parlance, for example, “action” (Aktion) referred to a violent operation against Jewish (or other) civilians by German security forces; “resettlement to the East” (Umsiedlung nach dem Osten) referred to the forced deportation of Jewish civilians to killing centers in German-occupied Poland; and “special treatment” (Sonderbehandlung) meant killing.

    Both at the time and later, such euphemisms impeded a clear understanding of what the Nazis were doing. This was partly to facilitate the killing process by keeping the victims in the dark about their fate as long as possible. Widespread Jewish resistance was only possible once Jews understood that Nazi policy was to kill all of them. Furthermore, Hitler could not just assume that almost no one would protest the killing of Jews. Even within his own party there were those who agreed with the campaign of persecution against Jews but who occasionally balked at systematic murder. For example, Wilhelm Kube, the German civilian administrator of occupied Belarus, fully supported the murder of the Belarusian Jews, but protested when the SS deported German Jews to Minskand shot them there.

    Hitler had reason to fear possible unfavorable reaction should all the details of the Holocaust become public. Euphemistic language aided secrecy since only those who knew the “real” meaning of the words would understand the deeper meaning of public statements or accurately interpret the documentary record.

    In addition to the use of coded language, Heinrich Himmler sought to destroy the physical remains of the victims of killing operations to hide the killing process from advancing Allied armies. He assigned SS officer Paul Blobel to command Operation (Aktion) 1005, the code name for German plans to destroy the forensic evidence at mass murder sites. The SS forced prisoners to reopen mass graves at both the killing centers in German-occupied Poland and at the open air killing sites in the former Soviet territory and to cremate the bodies, thereby removing evidence of mass murder. For example, at Babi Yar in Kiev in the summer of 1943, at Belzec in late 1942, and atSobibor and Treblinka in the fall of 1943, the mass graves were reopened and the bodies burned to ashes. In this way, the Germans and their collaborators destroyed much—but by no means all—of the forensic evidence of mass murder before advancing Soviet armies overran the scenes of these crimes.

    Late in the war, after word of the Holocaust had reached Britain and the United States, the Nazi leadership sought to counter Allied condemnation of Nazi policies toward Jews with a coordinated campaign of disinformation. On June 23, 1944, the Nazis permitted an International Red Cross commission visit to the Theresienstadtghetto in occupied Bohemia in what is today the Czech Republic. They hoped to mask Nazi killing operations in the occupied eastern territories by showcasing good conditions for Jews in Theresienstadt. The Red Cross commission consisted of two Danish officials and one Swiss representative and the visit lasted only six hours. It was an elaborate hoax. The SS authorities intensified deportations of Jews from the ghetto to alleviate overcrowding and spruced up the ghetto by planting gardens, painting houses, opening cafes and theaters and the like in preparation for the visit. They even instructed the prisoners how to behave during the inspection and to give positive reports about conditions in the ghetto. Once the visit ended, however, the SS authorities resumed deportations of Jews, overwhelmingly to the Auschwitz killing center in German-occupied Poland. The visit had served its purpose: to confuse international public opinion about the true nature of Nazi policies towards Jews.

    Despite Nazi efforts to keep secret the unfolding Holocaust, information did leak out. The perpetrators themselves talked about what they were doing. Occasionally, survivors of mass killing operations bore witness to the killing program. Both Jewish and Polish underground organizations made great efforts to let the outside world know what the Germans were doing in eastern Europe. The information was sometimes incomplete, contradictory, and inaccurate in some of the specific details, but the general policy and pattern of events were clear by the second half of 1942."===http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007273

    "As a secret vigilante group, the Klan targeted freedmen and their allies; it sought to restore white supremacy by threats and violence, including murder, against black and white Republicans."===http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    I highlighted the part that you seem to be ignoring altogether or perhaps not understanding properly.

    I notice you also ignored the rest of my previous post, which details what everyone knew and how they came by that information. The British even knew how many Jews, Poles and Roma were being killed on any given day at certain camps.

    Suffice to say, the big "secret", was never so secret.

    Yes. And everyone knew who they were, what they were about, what they stood for, what they wanted and who they really hated and wanted to kill and even how they killed.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Hitler, 1939, during a public speech: "Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"
     
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  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    And yet the Nazis did everything they could to keep the Holocaust a secret. It's documented history that cannot be denied.
     
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Which is why they all wore hooded sheets to their rallies and lynchings and cross burnings. "Nope. No hiding here! We're just making a fashion statement." lol!
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Like announcing it at public speeches.
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Of course he did! He did not want the word getting round that he and his party was nothing more then an animalistic, bruitish group of paranoid racist murderers thugs, hell bent on achieving world domination.
    But just as obviously, something on that scale could not be kept a secret.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    And yet they didn't.

    You are still denying history and trying to rewrite it.

    Even what you quoted clearly points out that "they talked about what they were doing". At this point in time, it appears to be clear that you do not read what you actually post.

    They weren't so secret because of the damn sheets.

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    They were always proud of who they were and proud to identify as a Klan member.

    These photos are from back in the 1920's when they all marched down the street with their faces shown.

    They never really hid.

    So can you please stop rewriting history now?
     
  15. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Bells, thanks for bringing the thread back from NAZIs only, and for the reality check. CTs are alive and well in a different key, but the same melody.

    We just need to sing better and louder to drown them.
     
  16. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! Wow..just wow!

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    "Klan members adopted masks and robes that hid their identities and added to the drama of their night rides, their chosen time for attacks. Many of them operated in small towns and rural areas where people otherwise knew each other's faces, and sometimes still recognized the attackers. "The kind of thing that men are afraid or ashamed to do openly, and by day, they accomplish secretly, masked, and at night."[46] The Ku Klux Klan night riders "sometimes claimed to be ghosts of Confederate soldiers so, as they claimed, to frighten superstitious blacks. Few freedmen took such nonsense seriously."[47]===http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    We can always count on MR to LOL! LOL! at deadly epidemics, the Klan and the Holocaust. Glad you find them funny; well done.
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously? Is that all you got left? Twisting my lol's into some kind of sinister joy over the KKK and Holocaust? As if it has nothing to do with the ridiculous claims quoted right above them?
     
  19. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Where were you born? I was born in the deep south in 1954. If you can imagine that these things were hidden in any way, you are either a fool or some sort of apologist for the evil that people do to one another.

    Do you not read history? Or not comprehend it because of your insulated childhood? Try again!
     
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    They wore hoods. They infiltrated law enforcement agencies and local govt. They targeted blacks and whites under cover of night. They bullied and threatened businesses that were pro-black. They burned black churches. To say they didn't operate under a veil of secrecy is just absurd. Ofcourse they did. That's why they called themselves "The Invisible Empire." You know...as in "not visible"?

    Question: why are you talking about my childhood?
     
  21. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Because you're ignoring reality. I wonder if you have a remote clue how things work in most of the world that doesn't impinge upon you specifically.
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Tip: Don't talk about something you have no clue about.
     
  23. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    OK. Thanks.
     

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