Psychology: Burkas give me the creeps.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by sculptor, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    4,498
    Burkas give me the creeps.
    that's it................

    Is this abnormal (for a guy raised in the us midwest)?
     
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  3. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    The problem I have with burkas is that they dehumanize the wearer, turning a human being into a... thing... moving down the street. One just has to assume that there's a woman inside the shroud.
     
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Wild guess
    Here in Iowa when women wear burkas, it would seem to be of their choosing.

    ....................
    I have an old joke about a truck driver, whiskey, and a convent.
    Wanna read it?
     
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  7. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    "Dehumanize" is a highly ideological notion. It is one thing to be forced to wear it - if one considers this as dehumanization, ok. But the usual Western rules of behavior are only quantitatively different, that one has to wear at least something may be considered equally "dehumanizing" to a fanatical naturalist. For those who want to wear it it is certainly not dehumanizing. For them, it is dehumanizing to force them not to wear it - similarly comparable to be forced to go naked.

    What to wear is a cultural thing. If one accepts that there are different cultures on the world, and that there is a leading culture in every place, which decides about the local rules what can be used and what is inappropriate, there is no problem at all with forbidding wearing burkas as well as wearing nothing. If to accept these rules hurts you or dehumanizes you, ok, don't travel to this place, stay at home. But there is certainly nothing shared by humanity or so which prescribes or forbids a particular choice of clothes.
     
  8. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    4,659
    I live in the south bay (Silicon Valley) area. There are quite a few Muslims around, but most of them are quite Westernized and women show their hair. You wouldn't know that people are Muslim at all unless you talk to them, and even then religion typically doesn't come up in conversation. There has been a noticeable increase over the last few years of women wearing crazy-scarves (hijabs). I don't know if they are more recent immigrants from traditionalist places or whether it's a sign of fundamentalist views seeping through the local community, causing women to want to display their devoutness and shariah-compliance.

    I've never seen a woman around here wearing a full length burka or hiding her face.
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I've never seen a burqa. I see a niqab once in a blue moon. I see hijabs every day. I rather like them.

    Native American singing used to give me the willies. Maybe I saw too many Westerns when I was a kid. Buffy Sainte-Marie cured me of that.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    6,988
    They're different.

    Lots of things are different. I see six different things before breakfast and revel in it. I embrace diversity.

    I lived in a extremely bland white town for a couple of years. Ye Gods how dull it is when everyone you ever encounter is predictable and the same as you.
     
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  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    6,988
    Turn the situation on its head for a moment.

    We are used to looking at a given person and thinking we know who they are, what they're up to, and whether or not they're going to kill us.

    It's an egregious illusion of complacency. Just because someone wears clothes we recognize, and we can guess that their religion is similar to ours, doesn't men they're not a drug dealer, serial killer or otherwixe out to get us.

    The familiarity that makes us comfortable is steering us awry. Don't fall for it.

    Every person is an enigma. The only way to know someone is to spend time getting to know them. That's the only valid litmus test for judging whether we're safe or in jeopardy - not the clothing they wear or what their face looks like.
     
  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I don't like the burkha, never seen one in person. I like the hijab, they are cute.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Headscarves have always been common in my crowd - they keep ones hair clean, protect against bugs, when working outside. Men tend to overheat in them, and long hair generally, doing that kind of work - buzzcut hair and a loose weave hat, so the breeze can cool the back of the neck, seems to be the ticket.

    What a social pressure to wear something like the hijab in non-work social situations tends to create is a division between the women subject to male pressure - and, thus, under male protection, off limits - and those independent of male pressure - and, thus, not under male protection: targets.
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Burka's give you the creeps!!! You wanna see me in my Sulu!

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  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Just joking, that's not me, here I am!

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    just joking again! here I am drinking kava!

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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I actually shine up pretty good in my Sulu! It's my great pair of legs that does it!

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  17. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    For westerners, even non-exotic items like traditional clown garb and hockey masks (outside of sport contexts) have become scary or ominous. So no surprise about burqas. That broader range might be interpreted as an affront to the P-word enjoying status as a catch-all cause of phobic emotions about apparel and appearances in agenda-heavy SJW circles. But that's occasionally the way reality goes when it takes a notion to hump on somebody's sacred totems, whether Abrahamic knock-offs or later continental permutations of Karlesque philosophy.
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    The Europeans had a tradition of knights riding around with their faces hidden behind steel masks.

    We don't have that in America. Only robbers wear masks. Exceptions are made for skiers, who need them to keep their faces from freezing, and take them off when it's time to go back into the lodge. And of course at Halloween parties, which many people actually think are rather creepy.

    The only other exception is the Lone Ranger, but he's not real.

    Nowadays in the USA, practically any building you walk into catches you on camera. If your face is hidden, you will simply not be allowed to enter.
     
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    4,498
    So, what about the anti-mask laws?
    eg:
    Code of Virginia

    18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.
    It shall be unlawful for any person over 16 years of age to, with the intent to conceal his identity, wear any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver. The violation of any provisions of this section is a Class 6 felony.

    There are many more in the USA
    Some seem to have been passed as an anti KKK measure.
     
  20. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    3,517
    Batman and Robin?

    ********

    What I don't understand about burkas

    Are they part of the religion ie embeded in religion ' thou shall wear the burka or burn in hell '?

    Or an accessory to the religion like wearing a nuns habit ie ' I am a Muslim and I wear my burka to indicate my faith '?
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    22,104
    Some interpret the passages about modesty in the Quran to imply or suggest using a burqa is acceptable.

    It isn't about burning in hell. It is about covering one's body completely as a sign of modesty.

    Firstly, Muslims are not the only people who wear the burqa.

    Some Ultra-Orthodox Jewish women in Israel have taken to wearing it for the same reason as some Muslim women wear it.

    Secondly, it is not to indicate one's faith. It is a show of modesty and to not attract unwanted male attention or be seen as sexual objects, leading to what some claim are impure thoughts.

    Which is kind of the point, isn't it?

    I find it interesting that you have a problem with it because it prevents you and others from what can only be described as a form of sexual objectification of some sort or other, by objectifying her as an object or a "thing"..

    When you see a Jesuit priest wearing the cassock a hooded cloak, do you identify him as a "thing"?

    Clearly you know it is a person, so why does she become a "thing"?
     
  22. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    3,517
    I don't see if that answers the question is it imbedded in the religion

    Are there other options or is the burqa the only option, a sort of take it or leave it?

    Fine I have no problem with any one adopting any form of dress which they are comfortable with

    Even if it is a bisexuality Catholic priest

    Well it works on me

    Will not be any unwanted attention coming from my direction

    No impure thoughts here

    Move along

    Nothing to see

    For the same reason if I see cars in traffic I can identify many of them by various aspects of the manufacturers design

    If I see a group of vehicles looking all the modest same I can only identify them all as cars

    ....why does she?

    Exactly

    May be a he

    May be a gender fluid

    May be two kids one on the shoulders of the other

    And I still do not think I have a answer if it is part or accessory?
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    24,295
    Yeah, in a certain sense - that's kind of the point. Their personal, ego-associated, separate identity is occluded, and only their role or function as minions of the Almighty remains. Ideally.

    With the burka, its not the Almighty they are minions of. And the vows - although similar, including poverty and renunciation of the world - are not voluntary.

    The role of the burka or hijab is made perfectly clear when the ambient temperatures and other circumstances of their wearing are included. Even their color - always dark. The men get to wear white, loose weave, cool clothing. They also get to pick up Vitamin D from sunlight, in the higher latitudes (the women lose teeth when pregnant, die young). It's pretty ugly, that scene. But culturally normal, of course - human cultures very often have some way of designating which (if any) of the women in them are consequence-free targets of sexual assault, and which entail high risk and trespass upon one's fellow men.
     

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