Protection against projective identification - resources?

Let's make a deal

OK. I'll make you a deal. Quit mentioning me in your hostile posts, and I will stop feeling like you are attacking me. Starting....now! Deal?

---Futilitist

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No dice. Where have I been "hostile" in this thread? Remember what I said above about being needlessly accusative?

I would not have commented on your post at all if you had not completely dismissed projective identification (the entire topic of the OP) in favor of spamming your pet theory.

 

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Hello marnixR

duplicate post due to bug.

 

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Hello marnixR

Hello marnixR. Long time no see.

This is a good insight.

But you are a registered senior member. You joined on 01-28-08. I have been here only since 12-03-12. I have more posts than you already.

An here is the really wild part:

This is your very first post on this site since 03-13-08, 12:03 PM!

You must be really interested in projective identification! Why is that?

Or maybe you are more interested in me.

Here is a recent conversation from thescienceforum.org. It is in the Trash Can, so it can only be seen by members.

http://thescienceforum.org/post11163.html#p11163

Who would trust someone who talked about them like this behind their back!?

I was "welcomed" back there on Dec. 6th, the very next day! I wonder why I didn't feel so "welcome".

Amateur frame up! You are obviously trying really hard to convince people that I am paranoid! I don't think anyone is buying it. You must be very embarrassed.

---Futilitist

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Think of one's boss and coworkers, for example.

Of course.

 

Futilist:


Do keep references to interpersonal issues at other forums out of this thread.
Unless you want to use them as examples of this thread's topic.

 

You are of course correct. My bad. Please forgive me.

Back to the topic of the thread.

Aside from Syne's objections to the concept, do you see anything wrong with my linking projective identification and current mimetic theory?

---Futilitist

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There has to be, because evidently, not everyone seems to be equally susceptible to it.

When your boss is the one doing the projecting, as when he yells at you, and you are the one who is supposed to introject the boss' projection - that is usually detrimental to you.

The problem with defense mechanisms is that they are happening below our conscious awareness.
One cannot just tell oneself "Don't introject" or "Don't project."

 

I did not dismiss the OP topic. I merely suggested it was related to mimetics. One man's pet theory is another man's spam.

---Futilitist

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Perhaps, I suppose, yet protective resources seem mighty thin.

This is true.

This is true and mostly unacknowledged.

---Futilitist

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If I am understanding mimetic theory correctly, then we are pretty much doomed, as far as projective identification goes, and the whole thing comes down to simply who happens to be more manipulative and more pushy.
That kind of thinking doesn't really help one to protect oneself against the projections that other people may want that one would introject.

 

That is why I am a Futilitist.

---Futilitist

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What use are concepts that tangle one in hopeless loops (such as "defense mechanism").
Maybe then, because Freudians have only pointed out the problem, not the solution, we could ditch the Freudians altogether.

 

I think we already have, for the most part.

Some people believe that it is possible to use mimetic theory to actually solve the problem. I'm not so sure, being a Futilitist and all.

Your post sent me searching for a good example I once saw of what some Christians refer to as a peace eschatology (I think, but I am not sure I have the terminology right). As I understand it, they propose using mimetic awareness to encourage mimetic cooperation rather than mimetic rivalry. I could not find the video, however.

But in the course of searching, I found a fantastic interview of Rene Girard in which the whole concept of mimetic theory is beautifully explained.

[video=youtube;BNkSBy5wWDk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNkSBy5wWDk[/video]

There is some Christian apologetics in the video. That part is obviously incorrect, IMHO. Rene Girard is like Frazier in that he cannot see past some of his own preconceptions. I believe the Jesus story is pure myth. But it does differ from most prior myths in that the victim is seen as innocent.

I do think his explanation of basic mimetic theory is very clear, though.

---Futilitist

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You have yet to make the case for any connection. You have only proclaimed it so.

That is too vague an example. It is easy to say that it is detrimental for your boss to yell at you, but without any details, we cannot possibly analyze who is actually doing the projecting. You could just as easily be getting yelled at because you believe your boss to be a hardass, and you project that onto your boss by being unintentionally negligent in your work. Your negligence is then a detriment to you when your boss does a PI of your projection. In other words, he reacts exactly as expected to your actions.

You seem to be suggesting that this boss is projecting his own laziness, or something, onto the employee. If the boss is so lazy that he comes off as really laid-back and inattentive then his employees will tend to take it easy. Regardless of how his yelling may make the employee feel, this boss is unlikely to maintain the productivity to keep his job or the business afloat. So the overall outcome is more detrimental to the boss. He is likely to develop a pattern of this where he would even drive away good workers, which is actually better for them in the long run.

Projection is a defense mechanism, PI is not. PI is a normally expected reaction that so happens to be in response to projection. It is only ever the behavior of the one projecting that is in err.

Until you can substantiate ANY evidenced connection, your pet theory is spam. Start a new thread for it or get busy supporting the connection already.

 

Why is PI a normally expected reaction? What is the mechanism that causes one to believe a false projection? I think that mechanism is mimetic desire. Did you watch the video I posted?

---Futilitist

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Yes how could I have missed that obvious answer. But it's doubly bad when you have to put up with that shit at work and the thought of going home after work brings no good feelings to you.

I would have bet the farm on that answer from you.

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don't know how you come to that conclusion
i was merely replying to a statement of Syne which i found rather dogmatic, as does his reply "Completely useless sentiment in science."

in science objectivity can best be approached through the independent confirmation of trials, but even then that's no guarantee that improvement can't be achieved over time, hence "truth" in science is an ever moving concept, and not to be confused with the fixed truth more appropriate to religion

 

I did not find myself reading the Wiki article (there were no kick ass fight scenes or naughty bits.)

But this memetic theory stuff is really fascinating. Please continue

 

Truce?

I thought Syne's statement was dogmatic as well, but you haven't made a comment on this forum in almost 5 years. You must have dogmatic statement radar! How did you happen to catch his slip?

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I agree 100% with this statement, however, are we supposed to believe that your being here now is just a coincidence? Would that be very scientific minded? I don't think so. My alternate hypothesis is that we (you and I) are both trapped in a mimetic rivalry. A pretty bad one, too. I think it would be very interesting to see if we could both break free of this. I would like to try. Do you think that it is possible?

---Futilitist

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