Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by alty, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. alty Brainy Burd! Registered Senior Member

    Should it be legalised?

    I personally say girls should be authorized to work legally with support from local governments & healthcare officials therefore the girls and clients are safe.

    The way I perceive it prostitution will never go away, it has always been and always will be, so it's best to be made safe.
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  3. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

    Yes, it should be legalized. But not because it won't go away.

    And BTW, girls aren't the only gender that prostitutes themselves...
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  5. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

    the act of sex has been used for the known length of the human
    species as a method of self healing and or sexual development and has bennifits which in their own right are substantial to the human mind and body
    when taking this view of the human and sexual relations it is easy to understand that it is not only somthing that can bring two people closer together but can help to heal and build people to a greater level of personal and social growth
    with the benefits being gained by the community as a whole
    im sure most are familiar with the expresion
    "you sound grumpy! did you not get any, last night?"
    such expresions, seem to be in most cultures to some degree

    it is only in the light of safe sex practices and once it has been removed from abusive situations and occurences that allow it to be better understood and accepted as a constructive activity that does not hold all the negative connatations that all "anti sex" people preach about

    and also once it has been better understood then people will have greater ability to breed with greater knolledge of what is
    required to help create a more healthy child without the hit and miss situations that consume huge amounts of emotional and community resources

    it would be a nice progresion to see such an industry asisted to
    give constructive development to the true nature of such mental health and physical health resources that have been required and sought by both sex's for as long as the human species
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  7. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

    I think that legalizing it isn't going to stop a lot of the problems in the "industry" as it stands. You'll still have plenty of the poverty stricken that "work" simply to feed themselves or a drug habit, not to mention the abuses that go along with that. I think the only thing legalizing it is going to do is stiffen penalties on the thousands of "non-registered" hookers who aren't really prostituting because they want to.
  8. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member


    is that a philisophical view?
  9. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

    I'd call it more of a practical view.
  10. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

    Giving it a bit of thought just now, I feel that prostitution should be legalized. As it stands right now it's a pretty dirty and risky practice usually gone to as a last resort for desperate women. There's a high risk of STDs, and lord knows that they are putting themselves at risk for violence (At the hands of a john, or a pimp), and even drug use.

    If we legalized prostitution I think that most of it's problems would simply go away. Think about it, if it's legal then it can be quite a bit more out in the open, it's quite likely that you'll have brothels and whore houses opening up, and that, for their customers sake, they are going to have certain standards. In other words they will probably require monthly blood tests to make sure their girls (or guys, who knows, it takes all kinds) don't have any STDs, and possibly they could require membership with certain requirements for their clientele. Essentially it's going to be a safer environment (not fool proof, but that's sex for you), the girls are going to be a lot less likely to be abused, and will probably be able to earn a better living being associated with a legitimate brothel.

    Due to competition from brothels the number of street walkers will probably go down (though I doubt they'd disappear altogether), suddenly there is just a bit more dignity in hitting bottom and having to sell your body to get by, at least you are legitimately employed, and don't have a pimp threatening to cut you if you stiff him, or start skimming some off the top and thinking he won't find out. In these conditions I imagine that spirits of the hookers would be a bit higher, and drug use in their ranks would probably go down. I imagine it’d end up becoming sort of like the porn industry. Not exactly the most savory business in the world, but hey it works.

    It's just a good situation all around, but then again I could be tragically wrong about all of this. Does anyone know if there has been any research done regarding prostitution in Las Vegas (where it is legal)? I'm curious to see how the situation there differs from the situation in say Los Angeles, or New York, or any other big city, really.
  11. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

  12. Dragoon Grandmaster Registered Senior Member

    Last time I checked, a person can be HIV positive for up to 6 months before testing positive. Am I to assume that these legal prostitutes are only going service two clients per year? Am I also to assume that they will be relyable enough to come in for the tests on a regular basis?

    Legalisation, in my opinion, will make it easier for predators to exploit the vulnerable. If one could set up one of these "safe" brothels, it wouldn't be that difficult to make a pitch to someone at a low point in her or his life that prostitution is a viable "career." Active recruiting would increase, and this fact alone gets my nay vote.

    But lets also look at what happens now. When a prostitutes are arrested, they are rarely punished in a significant manner. (Although I suppose that depends on the location.) Instead they are given opportunities to rehabilitate, get clean and sober, deal with personal issues (many prostitutes have suffered sexual and physical violence - the reason they turned to the sex trade in the first place), and even learn life skills. While it may be true no one can "make" another person turn his or her life around, legalising the sex trade would make it more difficult to present these kinds of options to that person.

    What about rape of prositutes? Sorry, I don't see that going down if its legalised.

    What about "ruining" the life of a John who is otherwise law-abiding? Even if it's legal, this guy (or girl) is taking a lot of risks. These days people tend to define morals from laws, instead of the other way around - legalising prostitution provides a state seal of approval towards the behaviour. Many people may "try" the services of a prostitute, who otherwise may have been deterred by the threat of arrest and punishment.

    Besides, who wants to pay for it when you can get it for free?
  13. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

    Well that's sure as hell a problem, but then promiscuous sex in general is, heh. Also the situation under legalization would be much better at least, as a brothel could require patrons to use condoms. It's really a much better situation for preventative measures.

    Haha, well of course. If you make it a condition for employment do they have a choice? If your employer asks you to take a drug test can you just tell them to fuck off? Same situation with a legally owned brothel.

    Well also, though it really takes the bite out of the decent into prostitution, and makes it something that really isn't as bad as it is today. Really the largest concerns left are moral ones, but really who cares if a bunch of conservatives are boo hooing that people are having sex.

    True, but legalizing it makes it less of a thing that you'd really need to turn your life away from. In other words it would make it such that prostitution just ain't really so bad.

    You don't? Why not? What's easier to get away with, raping a lone woman who doesn't really have anyone to turn to, and would have to implicate herself in illegal activities if she came to the police, or a girl who's working hours are spent in a fairly populated building, with a legitimate legal job and employer? If prostitution is legalized I imagine that it would be quite hard to get away with mistreating a whore.

    I don't see how this would be a problem.

    Well clearly a lot of guys through all ages and civilizations in history. It is the worlds oldest profession, after all.
  14. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

    I don't see as much changing, Mystech. It sounds laudable, but I think that what is going to happen is that you have a second tier of prostitutes which come into the profession after it has been legalized. They'll fill the ranks of the "reputable" brothels (which I'm to understand exist now anyway) and the street-walkers that are there because they've hit the bottom will still be there, the abusive pimps will still be there, and the only thing that will change is that organized crime will have been slightly more legitimized :>
  15. Dragoon Grandmaster Registered Senior Member

    Yeah, that's so much better. Are we going to have "brothel police" that are going to check? Most prostitutes these days are aware they should be using condoms.

    Am I to assume that no one will ever make "fake" licences? Or what about getting someone else to take the blood test? That would never happen. (And I don't think we're going to have enough resources to put into a prostitute DNA registery). The whole thing will turn into a big ol' Gong Show - wasting money that could be better spent on drug rehabilitation programs, councilling, teaching life skills.

    So how does making something legal suddenly make it less bad? Legal or illegal, the potential for abuse and exploitation is still there. Maybe I'm wrong and prostitutes will form unions and be able to enforce industry standards, but I just don't see this happening.

    Incidents of sexual assault in dormitories occur at a surprisingly frequent rate. And that's when the survivors have friends right next door, security patroling the buildings, dormitory staff to supervise parties and education programs in place to protect the students. I don't see legal brothels as "business offices" opening up in the mini-mall right next to the dentist. My guess is that they would end up like strip joints - run by organised crime syndicates and where anyone who "abuses" a prostitue ends up getting physically assaulted - in which case the police now have both the sexual assault, and the secondary assault to worry about.

    I think that proponents of the legalisation argument are presenting a view of a perfect "shagra-la." Even if there are legal brothels - it won't stop unlicensed workers from working. The degree of control over traded sexual activity would be minimal, simply because we don't have the resources to commit. In most situations, the best way to control the sex trade is to keep it illegal.
  16. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

    Sex for money is already legal. If you are in porn, you are having sex, and being paid. The only difference is that a third party paying both of the participants, rather than one paying the other.

    Putting aside harm reduction that would come from legalization, how does the state have the right to decide who, when, or why I or anyone else, has sex with? Our bodies are not state property, we may do with them as we please.

  17. Mrhero54 Registered Senior Member

    What's wrong with a new higher class tier of prostitutes. People will have acess to safer and better service. By legalizing it, harsher penalties can be given to law breakers. If a prostitute contracts AIDs and is outlawed to practice then she can be given a 10 year sentence in which she would die in prison, thus reducing the potential of spreading the disease and deterring women from it in light of the harsh penalties. And "organized crime" will become legitame business, less law enforcement devoted to stopping activices that people should be entitled to.
  18. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

    Why does this sound so absurd to you? I'm talking about simple things that go along with any legitimate business here. On a construction site a Forman will probably bitch you out about not wearing a hard hat, and similarly employers (brothel owners/management) would reprimand customers or employees who do not live up to the standards of business that they have set forth, IE using protection every time.

    Well you present a few interesting ideas in this paragraph that I hadn’t talked about. Issuing licenses for instance. I'm not sure how well that would work, I had more of a hands off idea in mind at first, but of course more regulation wouldn't necessarily hurt. We're not constructing a complete model for legalization here, so I won't go into the pros and cons of that idea.

    As for getting someone else to take the blood test that'd be kind of difficult seeing how as you've got to be there at the time, but anyway I don't see any reason why faking would occur more often than with any business. Maybe you're not out there in the working world but a large number of employers have mandatory random drug tests which can consist of urine and blood tests, and failure of these is grounds for termination. If you have an idea of why faking would be more prevelant within this particular profession feel free to give us your theory.

    Also, you say that it's a waste of money, but who's money, exactly? I don't get it, are you trying to imply that public money would have to be spent on such a thing? All the government needs to do is legalize it, and a free market economy takes care of the rest, it's not your or my money that's going into building big brothels, it's private entrepreneurs, investors, and big businesses and corporations (you know that holiday in would try to get in on some of that action). So I'm not entirely sure what you mean by money that would be better spent on social programs, as these are organizations which wouldn't have been spending money on those things anyway. Also if you think that a brothel industry would not make money you are just kidding yourself.

    I've already outlined a few points for how legalizing it would make it "less bad". It makes the situation so much easier. It's just the same as if we legalized pot, all of a sudden Marlboro and Philip Morris would be manufacturing joints and selling them on supermarkets. Users will buy their stuff from reputable legal venders with federally enforced standards so they don't have to worry about their stash having been sprayed with something, or getting their head blown off by warring drug dealers or something. As people turn away from street dealers that profession simply won't be able to make enough money anymore and suddenly we've got a lot less of the old traditional drug dealers on hand and the situation basically just fixes it's own damn self.

    So you are saying that if a man sexually assaulted a woman in a place of business full of other whores, staff, and probably security, that somehow that would be much easier to get away with than assaulting a random street walker who would have to implicate herself in illegal activities if she wanted to report the crime? You're nuts.

    Well, being that prostitution is illegal that is really sort of the situation as it stands now. The best bet a hooker has is to tell her pimp and then he'll make sure that the john gets slashed up or something. If there were leangle and legitimate brothels in operation then it would take the market force away from street walkers or these underground syndicates as you put it, simply because an open honest regulated business with certain professional standards is always a better choice for a consumer than risking such other sources.

    Again you come to the idea of licensing them, I never mentioned any such program. But you are right, it wouldn't completely stop independent street walkers completely, but it would cut down on them drastically. After all, what guy is going to pick up some skuzzy street walker, when just down the street there is a legally owned brothel which has it's own standards of conduct and safety?

    It's illegal now and we haven't got a bit of control over it. Legalizing it is the only way to gain control over it and essentially declaw it. If it's legal it's really not such a problem. As for the problem of not having enough resources to commit to it, I'm afraid that I simply don't understand what you mean. Who doesn't have enough resources to commit to it? Are you implying again that public funds should be spent on such a venture? That sounds to me like a very stupid idea no matter the case, the problem would work itself out, we don't need government intervention.
  19. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

    Maybe he means that congress is out of stationary to write such a bill on. If that is the case, then I must agree it is a simply appaling situation. Our nations capitol should have enough paper and ink at all times to print up proposed legislation!
  20. mrmufin Registered Member

    There's nothing quite like professional service.


    Well, I'm certainly no fan of more government intervention; I suspect that intelligent "practitioners" and intelligent clients know and understand the risks associated with casual sex. Nobody wants to get diseased; if reducing the risks meant regular healthcare visits, blood tests, etc., it's in the best interest of all parties involved to provide mutually acceptable data and/or take adequate protective measures.

    No, it certainly won't go away. Nor will drug use, gambling, extreme sports or other consensual, high-risk human activities.

    Folks, I spent a week in Amsterdam a few years back, where prostitution is legal, cheap - and when compared to the USA - quite clean. And there ain't nothin' quite as nice as professional service.


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