Hello to all, I have a philosophy proof that I want to bounce off the cosmology Forum. There are four laws involved in the proof that the universe was created by an external force: [a] Law of exclusive Middles [*2] Law of Cause and Effect [*1] [c] First law of thermodynamics (a subset of ) [d] Law of entropy (a subset of ) I can prove the universe was created using logic. The argument boils down to this: 1) Either there is an eternal force or there is not an external force to create the universe. - [a] is satisfied 2) Either the universe was created or it was not created. [a] & are satisfied 3) If the universe was not created by an external force then an external force is not needed for the universe to exist. is satisfied 4) If the universe was not created by an external force then it (the universe)must be eternal. is satisfied 5) If the universe created itself then it disobeys [c] and hence disobeys as well. It also disobeys [a]. A universe is not able to "exist" and "not exist" at the same time because of [a]. You don't get something from nothing according to and [c]. Hence this solution violates three laws. 6) If the universe is eternal then it disobeys the law of entropy [d] even with antimatter considered. Hence this solution violates one law that governs it. (This is where the bang and crunch theory fails, as well as other theories like it such as steady state theory). If the universe resets its own entropy then the law of entropy is violated -- this would be a 2nd order perpetual motion machine by definition, and PMMs are impossible according to the laws of physics. 7)Therefore the universe is not eternal and it did not create itself. 8) Hence the universe was created by some external force, because the other two solutions are disproved using the known laws of logic and science. 9) This force would have to be eternal to satisfy law [a] 10) This force would have to put all the laws of physics in place -- this satisfies 11) This force would have to be greater then its creation -- this satisfies law 12) Hence there is a creator force. Any comments, critiques, opposing views, opposing theories? Thanks *edited to remove 'god' Q Footnotes: [*1]The law of cause and effect says: - Nothing can not cause something, it can only cause nothing. - A cause can not come after the effect and an effect can not come before the cause. - The effect can not be greater than the cause. [*2]The law of excluded middles says a proposition can not be both true and false at the same time.