# problems of Time Travel

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Elmo, Sep 11, 2001.

1. ### ElmoRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
45
Right, forget any debates about the physicalities of time travel, Just say for a moment that it was possible. What would happen?

In our present time, can it be denied that everything that has happened has happened? If you went back in time, your presence in that timeline would alter events no matter how careful you were. Your very existence would change time. These changes would then be present in your own time and you would have memories of them. or would you? During time travel would you disappear from your own time? could you meet your self in the past? or would you cause a shift in everything so that everything is as it was?

Here's another question. Would you find anything in the past? Does the old model that everything is repeating itself over and over work? Everything that was there is now here, if you remove yourself from our time then could you garantee that you would end up anywhere at all?

What about travel into the future?
The future hasn't happened yet, so is there anything there at all?
It can be said that when you arrive in the future, it will have happened. But what about the trousers of time? With an infinite number of futures, which one will you land in? and then how do get back to your own time?

All questions and no answers, but that's what you are faced with when you start to try and mess with time. The truth is beyond us and always will be.

3. ### XerxesasdfghjklValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,830
Actually the future is already determine this. You can determine it by calculating patterns. There is certainty in the uncertainty principle and all you have to do is look for it. If you were to travel back in time then the earth at that time you left would be changed only seconds after once your effects were noticed. These would be only the immediate effects. Long term effects could already be recognized because you would know your descent through time although you wouldnt know the immediate effects.

It's pointless to travel to the future though, because, that may be only the prefuture as any differences you may notice you would bring back in order to alter it. But you wouldn't be able to change it. Black holes transport matter through TIME, throughout existance.

If you know how to calculate patterns and basically definitive path in the uncertainty principle then you can know the future and cycles and crap. I'm to lazy to all that stuff now though.
Goodnight

5. ### kmguruStaff Member

Messages:
11,757
When you travel back in time, you increased the mass of the universe. If you move the earth through time, you will have two earths orbiting the sun.

BTW, have you seen anyone from the future lately? I thought I did, but then she disappeared....

7. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
13,105
From what I understand that is what makes the universe have the ability to expand, with a constant increase in mass through such natural occurances like blackholes.

Afterall a blackhole is a star that has collapsed upon itself or that's what we are lead to believe, when it reaches a level where it converts mass to an transfer of energy, it actually sends the energy it transfers back to it's former mass as a star.
(That's what I'm guess)

That would account for how a star can burn for so long (Well glow from friction) and also how sunspots can occur.

Of course I'm going to work on a better way of explaining how I mean, of course it will them be up to people if they think it's the correct way or if an event is fully observed that proves it correct or incorrect.

As for seeing people from the future, Well with a little bit of gizmo technology it's possible to send an image "Back in time", so you could get your collegue in a lab to take a picture and send it, and viola you suddenly have seen someone from the future.

8. ### TristanLeave your World BehindValued Senior Member

Messages:
1,358
Actualy.......

Time travel.....interesting..... I personally believe in the theory that there is an infinite number of alternate realities. I think that when time travel takes place it's more like interdimensonal travel. You go back to when the dinos roamed, your actually traveling to another parallel universe that somehow has beenn affected by time differently to appear 65 million years older that we know of. Problem is getting back to your original reality. Even If i did this Or even time traveled lie suggested above, and if i got to the right home, i would feel really ierd for the rest of my life. Kinda like in ummm......Lost in Space the movie. He time travels back before their ship is destroyed. I would feel really wierd.

9. ### kmguruStaff Member

Messages:
11,757
If we can go back in time or go to another reality, then some one more advanced than us could come to our reality. So far we can not see any teltale signs. Unless these people came in during the Hercules time....with super powers.

10. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
13,105
Tristan, You are particially right, I explained in another post about the use of particular equipment to create parallels, or the ability to create parallels, resides in the ability to transfer information "back in time".

I told a story in the oringal but to shorten it in a different terming:

Today you go to work and quit, You then go to your gizmo that sends a message back to yesterday and tell yourself, to claim a day sick.

Okay, now if you didn't have that message previously to you quitting, and you got a message to quit. Then you have actually now created a parallel, Your timeline now coexists with one where you skived the day off of work and possibly exist with an infinite number of others either excusing themselves from work, getting involved in accidents, demanding payrises, saving cats from trees etc.

The point is here, that at the point of splitting off from your original path (hearing the message) you would feel nausia and possibly an increase or decrease in quanta.

(I think a topic I've been discussioning mentions the danger of what I called a wave function collapse, of course in the scientific world it probably has a different meaning from how I mean. What I mean is that when you split, your body is now changing to two different energy levels and electron positions. Like your arm is in a different position on each one, but where the differences overlay you can feel some discomfort because of the quanta change.

Since in space a larger mass dictates where a higher gravity is, when you have a two parallel split and one parallel has a higher atomic gravity than the other for a particular position within the universal position, then the energy can slip from the weaker gravity parallel position to the stronger parallel position, to make it a higher to full quanta.)

Originally when I looked at the method of sending information back, I realised that you actually have the ability to incriment the whole timeline back in relationship to a parallel, so you could have the same timeline existing all at the same time.

this is the basis of wormhole studies, although a true wormhole is just that small piece of information flying back to tell you to take that day off of work.

As to getting back to our reality, well since the only thing that would keep us from these other times is:

a) The frequency
b) The postion
c) The technology

I would speculate we could find our time through our broadcasts (television, radio and other frequencies that are man made)
Of course this means that the future is an extrememly noisy place (that includes the present) the past would have more clarity.

If you were interact though with anyone on the planet in the past, who would it be and why? and would you try to change history, because it wouldn't change anything here, unless you were crafty, like hiding something that nobody knows about somewhere etc)

11. ### MooseRegistered Member

Messages:
26
ugh, its getting real ugly in here......
but i prefer to dislike the classical configuration spaces

Iam a barbourist, and consequently feel that the past present and future do not exist because the universe is timeless, and time is inherant in time capsules etc.

but, i am open to listening(obviously). However, the space time i dislike. And i can't put a finger on why.......

moosey feeling like mince pies (xmas soon)

12. ### ElmoRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
45
For Moose

Ok, Moose. Please explain this idea that the universe is timeless. Do you think it is finite? I'm intrigued as to what you mean.

13. ### kmguruStaff Member

Messages:
11,757
There is a big article in Discover magazine about how Universe is Timeless...

14. ### Reign_of_ErrorRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
68
For Elmo

If moose believes that the universe is timeless, then how could he believe it is finite??

that was you question, in essence anyway..

maybe I am off the mark, but how could something be timeless and finite at the same time??

cheers

RoE

15. ### kmguruStaff Member

Messages:
11,757
It is finite only if you have a limited number of frames (that is you can count them, no matter how large). Timeless become it is all in the frames. A video tape hold the movie in a lot of frames, it does not have its own little time system running all the time....but the observer experiences as time in the movie.

16. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
13,105
You could try and say the universe is timeless, but time is noticably measured especially when the topic of Spacetime crops up (I sometimes write Timespace)

Time is usually measure in that instance by light, and light (or frequencies of the spectrum) can be distorted by gravity, or heat, meeting mass etc. The only way a universe could become timeless is iff you could suck out all energy and not even leave the zero-point energy background. Of course then, nothing would exist to decay so then you could have your infinite timeless period, but nobody would be there to notice it.

17. ### RickॐValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,336
Re: Actualy.......

i think you"re right Tris,if someone goes back in time and manages somehow to alter the past in a major way would lead to another rabbit hole with newly advancing parallel universe and may head somewhere else.that was the idea given by prof Kaku in hyper space concept

18. ### Mr. Greality.sysValued Senior Member

Messages:
5,190
Folks talk as if time travel is the really cool thing to do.

Consider that in String Theory, to name one curent theory of reality, there are 11 or 13 dimensions -- with time merely being the 4th one.

Time travel is a reality-challenging concept that is several dimensions short of frontier thinking.

19. ### RickॐValued Senior Member

Messages:
3,336
By that do you mean cosmic string theory?

20. ### kmguruStaff Member

Messages:
11,757
It is fun to talk....dont you think?...since we have a hardtime thinking in 5 - dimensions let alone 11 or 12.

21. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
13,105
I found this site which goes into detail on the subject of dimensions:
http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/ManyWorlds.html

I know I have on occasion (and other posts) tried to explain about dimensions over 4 just being the same as the four but incorporating a fold and placing your perspective into a Multiworlds state, but nobodies really paid any attention

22. ### amaroqRegistered Member

Messages:
6
back to the question of altering the past through time travel...what first comes to my mind is the "grandmother paradox" it is rather difficult to describe, but i will try my best though i am sure many of you are already familiar with the concept. One may pose the question "what if you went back in time and killed your grandmother before she gave birth to your mother?" the problem this would create would be that if you have killed your grandmother, then your mother would have never been born, and going further yet- you never would have been born. yet, if you were never born you couldn't possibly have gone back in time and be able to kill your grandmother. excuse me for being vague, but i am having difficulty clearly explaining the theory. just a little something to think about.

23. ### Bobby LeememberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
143

Are you okay man? Weeeeeeee......

Who would want to shoot the Grandma, who would want to go back in time??

THE TWILITE ZONE FOR YOU............wwweeeeeeee

I think you have jumped to your own conclusions and skinned your Knee!

Bobby lee