Problem with the expansion of integration by parts

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by eram, May 15, 2013.

  1. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    I've come across this funny problem while messing around with integration by parts. Probably made a mistake somewhere.


    In the integration of parts expression, it's possible to expand it further.

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    Plugging the second expression into the first, we get

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    I don't think this is standard notation, but it's better than writing out all the "violin holes".

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    Expanding ad infinitum we get

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    The problem is that it seems like we will get an infinite string of polynomials on the right hand side, but not on the left.
     
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  3. Tach Banned Banned

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    This is not a problem, this is the trivial recursive expansion of the integration by parts.
     
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  5. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    It is quite interesting to experiment with all manner of recursive objects.

    The problem is to find out why there isn't a problem with the maths.
     
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  7. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Integration by parts is not an answer to integration -- it's a strategy that sometime helps find a solution, analogous to walking a tree to find a solution to a problem.

    The problem is that \(\int w_{\tiny 0} dx\) doesn't automatically tell you how to factor it into \( \int u v' dx = uv - \int v u' dx\) such that \(\int v u' dx = \int w_{\tiny 1} dx \) is closer to an answer than \(\int w_{\tiny 0} dx\) was. Specifically nothing prevents the solution to \(\int w_{\tiny 1} dx\) as also requiring integration by parts.

    Example:
    \( \int x^3 \, \sin x \, dx \; = \; - x^3 \, \cos x \; - \; \int -3x^2 \, \cos x \, dx \\ \quad \quad \quad = \; - x^3 \, \cos x \; - \; \left( -3 x^2 \, \sin x \; - \; \int -6x \, \sin x \, dx \right) \\ \quad \quad \quad = \; - x^3 \, \cos x \; - \; \left( -3 x^2 \, \sin x \; - \; \left( 6x \, \cos x \; - \; \int -6 \, \cos x \, dx \right) \right) \\ \quad \quad \quad = - x^3 \, \cos x \; + \; 3 x^2 \, \sin x \; + \; 6x \, \cos x \; - \; 6 \sin x \; + \; C \\ \int w_{\tiny 0} dx = u_{\tiny 0} v_{\tiny 0} - \int w_{\tiny 1} dx = u_{\tiny 0} v_{\tiny 0} - u_{\tiny 1} v_{\tiny 1} + \int w_{\tiny 2} dx = u_{\tiny 0} v_{\tiny 0} - u_{\tiny 1} v_{\tiny 1} + u_{\tiny 2} v_{\tiny 2} - \int u'_{\tiny 2} v_{\tiny 2} dx \\ \begin{eqnarray} w_{\tiny 0} & = & x^3 \, \sin x \quad \quad \quad & u_{\tiny 0} & = & x^3 \quad \quad \quad & v'_{\tiny 0} & = & \sin x \quad \quad \quad & u'_{\tiny 0} & = & 3x^2 \quad \quad \quad & v_{\tiny 0} & = & - \cos x \\ w_{\tiny 1} & = & -3x^2 \, \cos x \quad \quad \quad & u_{\tiny 1} & = & -3x^2 \quad \quad \quad & v'_{\tiny 1} & = & \cos x \quad \quad \quad & u'_{\tiny 1} & = & -6x \quad \quad \quad & v_{\tiny 1} & = & \sin x \\ w_{\tiny 2} & = & -6x \, \sin x \quad \quad \quad & u_{\tiny 2} & = & -6x \quad \quad \quad & v'_{\tiny 2} & = & \sin x \quad \quad \quad & u'_{\tiny 2} & = & -6 \quad \quad \quad & v_{\tiny 2} & = & - \cos x \end{eqnarray}\)
     
  8. eram Sciengineer Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, so we always hope that \(\int w_{\tiny 1} dx\) will be in a form we know how to integrate.

    As for the polynomial string, it is quite complicated. They are multiplied by inverse factorial coefficients and the higher order derivatives of u.
     

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