Pragmatic, cultural and political etiologies of the Founders cognition on the 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelor, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    27,431
    Secession.
    Of course. So was the rest of the Constitution. This was a few years after the end of the Revolutionary War, of course - the secession had been at least temporarily accomplished.
     
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  3. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    just the best know. Monaco and some of the carribean states are also example. and considering you think hitler is a great argument for your case you really haven't shown your self capable of making that judgement.

    which isn't a support of your argument if you'd take to its logical conclusion.
    your special kind of something. refering to things like the lord's resitance army a semi professional group and than trying to label that as something i support. typical libertarian argument i dont like this so government. fact in some africa countries the illicit gun ownership in PRIVATE hands to be close to 200 per 100 people. Warlords and paramilitaries are private hands. your the one who is ok with not regulating that not me.

    more lies and projection from you. no i used info that i felt was less biased. this is your problem ice that ive commented on. your incapable of accepting anyone else point of view. i'm under no obligation to accept your framework of argument. your argument was tantamount to arguing that yeah you burned down the house but you got rid of the spider. your argument not that you'll admit was essentially arguing against a strawman argument. it matters only if your arguing against the idea that guns have never contributed anything positive. if you try being honest i never said that. my only absolute claim was that guns have never defended freedom that as an implement of power they are an agent of opression. gun have occasionally stopped crime, ive never denied that, but they have to a far greater degree facilitated it.
    funny how you doing exactly what i said you would. ignore anything that disagrees with you and claim for your self sole arbitrator of what constitute good info. the problem as i've said i'm and most of us are talking about set a and your like no your wrong cause of subset d of subset c of subset b of set a. if arming more people stops 500 burgalries of armed residence but increases the amount of burgalries by 1500 did it do good?
    still the same ice.your post might be convincing to you thats irrelevant. what matter is convincing to someone else. you might try that for a change but that would try something other than pontificating. there is no error on my point. this is what i talk about with you. i disagreed with you so i must be wrong.

    your standard circular argument. you say my arguments are bad with out actually proving it. than you just dismiss my arguments. notice i actually point out what i think the the errors i of your argument is everytime. most time you just go thats bad and thats that. though thankfully you actually listed reasons.
    i've had links from you that didn't work i didnt through a hissy fit i did the leg work to track them down. or if you claiming this has been a reuccuring problem its on you for not bringing it to my attention so i can double check the link.

    no you haven't. only you believe that.
    no they havent

    you mean sensible people like your self who condone the commission of gun crime and threats? you'll have to forgive me if i dont find them sensible. hell i believe you your self admitted to be willing to commit a gun crime. I believe the exact quote was "If i was mugged i'd pull out my gun and mug them back"

    again i'm not obligated to accept your framing. what a suprise. honesty in ice book is only doing things the way you want. [QUOTE}That was the basis of my point.[/QUOTE] you had a point
    This is a flat out lie. i specificlly posted a link that compared the two. it might be the one you allege didn't work for you but i did exactly that. also my other link is riddled with links to more info.
    no your not. that you claim you are doesn't mean you are. you spend more time attacking gun control advocates while ignoring the excesses of the pro gun crowd. you not a gun control advocate.

    only if we accept your frame work. most people dont.
    says the person who relies exclusively on irrational, unscientific, counterfactual, and disingenuous arguments.
    tired of your fucking bullshit lies and slanders?
    you mean the "reasonable" extremists like your self. actually it has more to do with the power imbalance in favor of single issue voters. despite your claims to the contrary your delusions aren't fact.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Sure it is. Logical, remember - not your forte.
    I still can't read it, and I have no reason to think you know what you're doing.
    Every other such link you have ever posted or argued from - every one of dozens, for years now - screwed up its stats badly and incompetently in several ways: aggregating by State being the most common. That isn't accurate, as noted (with detailed links and explanations, several times). It is overwhelmingly common.
    Bottom line: I have never seen a compilation of accurate stats in that particular question, or a research program that addressed the central issues carefully. You claim to have found one - in a link I can't read, to a source that does not appear to be primary research, surrounded by your normal confusion and bs. What are the odds?
    I specifically addressed, with a specific example and an explicit argument, exactly what I disagreed with.
    Warlords are lords - government. Paramilitary organizations in Africa are armed by their backing corporate and governmental interests.
    Not individual citizen hands, in other words.
    The firearms are provided by governing organization and leadership, not brought by the impoverished wielder, in most African armed forces. The African citizenry was disarmed, in every colony and under every colonial regime, and never regained the prosperity necessary for arming itself. What we see now came after that - if you are assessing cause and effect, the cause comes before the effect.
    - - - - -
    I have spent much more time on this forum - much more, pages more - posting and defending proposals for actual gun control measures, than you have.
    So the reasonable, multi-issue voter - the large majority, almost all of whom favor several gun control measures similar to my proposals here - is for some reason refusing to hand you political power. You don't like my explanation, regardless of evidence and argument. Do you have one of your own?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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