Power, Purity, Meekness and God. The Ugly Reality of Rape Culture.

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bells, May 23, 2015.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not talking about that specific situation, i.e. isolated incident, I asked had previously, however:

     
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  3. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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  5. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    "I picked him up, threw him to the ground multiple times and Charles did the same thing," Dan Quinn, who was a U.S. Army captain at the time, told CNN. "We basically had to make sure that he fully understood that if he ever went near that boy or his mother again, there was going to be hell to pay."

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/22/asia/afghanistan-boy-abuse-us-military/index.html
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Dissonance

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    "I confess, I've never been able to wrap my brain around this one. On the one hand we are told that every child is a blessing, no matter how ill-conceived. On the other, we are told that a child is what slutty sluts deserve for having sex outside of marriage. Even more twisted: If you got raped, the baby is a blessing. If you had sex of your own free will, it's what you had coming. Can we at least pick one or the other?"


    In a way, Valerie Tarico's↱ article for Salon, advising various retorts for right-wing, anti-abortion appeals to aesthetics, is the sort of thing that might well read like trolling, except that's the thing. Consider the time Foster Friess, then backing Rick Santorum's 2012 presidential bid, went on msnbc and explained that in his day women just put aspirin between their knees for contraception, "and it wasn't that costly"?

    And this is what always looks like a trap: Perhaps it might seem a bit truculent and superficial to remind notions like, "Hint: People who don't exist don't have feelings." To the other, it is also true that the over four decades since Roe v. Wade have seen nothing more than increasingly belligerent appeals to sentiment and aesthetics. The public discourse on the issue does, at some point, sound like an internet argument.

    Example: How would you feel if your mother aborted you?

    Answer: I wouldn't. Try this exercise. How would you feel if your mother had partnered with someone other than your dad? How would you feel if she had a headache the night you would have been conceived? How would you feel if she'd rolled over in the opposite direction after sex on that key night in history and a different sperm got to the egg first? Hint: People who don't exist don't have feelings.

    It really does.

    But that, quite particularly, is the simplicity anti-abortion both wants and requires.

    They keep trying. Why not give this straightforward demonstration of why the anti-abortion discourse is a waste of time a try?

    But Ms. Tarico also makes a point of responding to shaming attempts, such as:

    9. A child is a punishment.

    Examples: “You should keep your legs together.” (comment) “Your lack of control over your own hormones, stupidity, carelessness, laziness and inconsiderateness created another life within you.” (comment) “She should have to deal with the consequences.” (comment)

    I confess, I’ve never been able to wrap my brain around this one. On the one hand we are told that every child is a blessing, no matter how ill-conceived. On the other, we are told that a child is what slutty sluts deserve for having sex outside of marriage. Even more twisted: If you got raped, the baby is a blessing. If you had sex of your own free will, it’s what you had coming. Can we at least pick one or the other?

    Now, try to tell me that in a practical, functional, observable, logical context she doesn't have a point. This is the problem with appeals to aesthetics; the anti-abortion movement is all over the map. Indeed, where it joins up with other aspects of purity cult, such as the anti-gay factions, coginitive dissonance erupts on such a scale as to apparently be numbing, because by their own logic, God blesses the conception and birth of each homosexual who makes it into the world.

    But this is a dissonance within anti-abortion; they're not even bothering to keep track of the words they're saying. Remember, the politicians in the 2012 cycle weren't the first people in history to suggest that conception from rape was some manner of gift from God; my favorite is the Chick tract that makes the point as not subtly as possible:

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    Even in more explicitly stated terms, anyone remembering the anti-abortion movement leading up to the Summer of Mercy and its subsequent carnage heard some manner of the gift from God argument more than a few times.

    And see how this works, too, in the context of Infinite Prevention Advocacy: Sure, it's your fault this happened, but cheer up, it happened for a reason! Remember, in Quiverfull and other such explicit purity cult experiences, victims of sexual offense are expected to apologize to their abusers. The overlap here, again, is simply not subtle.

    It becomes more and more nakedly apparent for any number of reasons. Unavoidable are some large ideas, like the nature of mass communications in the internet framework; the marketplace framework of mass media, and manners of prospering therein; and the increasing desperation of the social conservative assertion as its platform seems e'er mroe aged, dusty, and, at best, useless, though we are not so lucky.

    The cost? Foster Friess referred to the monetary cost. The human cost? Birth control, abortion, and human rights empowerment in issues of sex and sexuality have brought women in American society, on average, such gains as we must struggle to properly measure. Indeed, the cost is obvious, because the people left behind from what our society, through women, has gained by simple empowerment of women's human rights and prerogative, also live in the places where majorities still struggle to ward off that empowerment.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Tarico, Valerie. "'You should keep your legs together': The shaming women can expect when they open up about abortion". Salon. 20 September 2015. Salon.com. 22 September 2015. http://bit.ly/1OOp6Mi
     
  8. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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    In a 2013 Vice Media, Inc. documentary titled "This Is What Winning Looks Like", British independent film-maker Ben Anderson describes the systematic kidnapping, sexual enslavement and murder of young men and boys by local security forces in the Afghan city of Sangin. The film depicts several scenes of Anderson along with American military personal describing how difficult it is to work with the Afghan police considering the blatant molestation and rape of local youth. The documentary also contains footage of an American military advisor confronting the then acting Police Chief on the abuse after a young boy is shot in the leg after trying to escape a police barrack. When the marine suggests that the barracks be searched for children, and that any policeman found to be engaged in pedophilia be arrested and jailed, the high-ranking officer insists what occurs between the security forces and the boys is consensual, saying "[the boys] like being there and giving their asses at night." He went on to claim that this practice was historic and necessary. "If [my commanders] don't fuck the asses of those boys, what should they fuck? The pussies of their own Grandmothers?"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi#Media_coverage

    We’re just not supplying the Afghans with the right kind of military support.

    Although the Civil War's Gen. Joseph Hooker is probably the most well-known military commander to officially sanction prostitution, he is certainly not alone. American military history is littered with officials who drew connections between a soldier's sexual habits and his battlefield performance. As Gen. George Patton put it most famously (and perhaps most crassly), "if they don't [blank], they don't fight." Other, less explicit, officials feared that soldiers would in fact have sex and that they would acquire venereal disease in the process. The military reconciled these two seemingly contradictory beliefs by providing prostitutes for men in the hope that a regulated system would be safer than the alternative. It was, Gen. John Pershing believed, "the best way to handle a difficult problem."


    http://www.richmond.com/news/article_1bd36741-1244-5aaa-9d2d-ff71c9ec0d40.html


    NATO simply needs to recruit prostitutes for the cause. The few, the proud, the STD free.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    In the current ideological climate, that simply transfers the problem.
     
  10. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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    Even in the current ideological climate, military sanctioned prostitution is preferable to sexual slavery.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Read that sentence again.
     
  12. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Facilitating pedophiles with adult female prostitutes cures pedophilia? Is that in the DSM?
     
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  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    A better strategy...

     
  14. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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    I doubt that the DSM is central to NATO policy planning, while maintaining favor with the present host security forces is. Military policy often boils down to a choice of lesser evils, so weaning pedophiles off the tit(or cock in this case) of child slavery by covertly supplying them with prostitutes of the gender of their choosing, would seem to be morally superior than just turning a blind eye to the abuse in question.

    Yet it failed to eradicate the alien menace. It took two more sequels to get the job done.

    How about a less apocalyptic solution where we jump into Doc Brown’s DeLorean, go back to the day after G W Bush’s conception, spike Babs’s lunch with Mifepristone and prevent the Savior of the Middle East from being born.
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    Alternatively, you treat them like the paedophiles they are and put them in prison for having raped children.

    Or do you think that people who actually get off on raping children just need an appropriate hole to use and that will somehow make things all better?

    Providing them with prostitutes of their 'gender of choice' is turning a blind eye to the abuse that has happened.

    You cannot cure paedophilia with prostitutes or sex.
     
  16. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Have you seen 'The Flowers of War'? It would be pretty difficult to make the prostitutes look like little boys, wouldn’t it? What, recruit young looking male prostitutes? Comfort men?

    "The Japanese rationale for the comfort system was to enhance the morale of the military by providing amenities for recreational sex.

    The authorities believed such amenities would help prevent soldiers form committing random sexual violence toward women of occupied territories, which became a concern after the infamous Nanjing Massacre in 1937."


    Instead of punishing them for random sexual violence, they rewarded them with sex slaves, and they still haven't issued a full apology.

    Japanese leader sidesteps apology for WWII 'comfort women'.

    Warning graphic content!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre#Rape

    Target of Opportunity & Other War Stories
    By Robert McKellar
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  17. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Or we could support men like Charles Martland and Dan Quinn.
     
  18. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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    Ideally that what would be done if it were in your power to do so.

    When officials claim that having sex with boys is their alternative to having sex with their grandmothers, I think that providing a more acceptable alternative could be arranged.

    But not to the abuse that may proceed.

    NATO’s job isn’t about curing the predilections of the host government’s officials; it’s securing the county from being overtaken by what they perceive to be a less worthy alternative in the guise of the Taliban. NATO forces are tasked with doing far worse assaults on the Afghan people, namely assuming a given number of civilian casualties to be an acceptable factor in the prosecution of their mission.

    If you want to get tough on pedophiles in Afghanistan, simply stop giving military support to the present government and allow the Taliban to take control, then heads will literally begin to roll.

    Finding young men to assume the role of a teenage boy is not difficult. Many men in their late teens and early twenties could physically pass for a young teen. Would it be morally more acceptable for a young man to kill innocent civilians in the line of duty, or to sleep with a pedophile to assure better relation with the host government?
     
  19. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Who are we there to protect, Afghan pedophiles or civilian children?
     
  20. Capracus Registered Senior Member

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    Since pedophiles and children are both members of a greater society, and we’re presumably there to provide protection to that society, the answer is both.
     
  21. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously?

    You're actually, intentionally, implying that pedophiles deserve protection?
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    Well, it is in NATO's and Allies' power to do so.

    And you believe providing 'comfort' young men and women is a better alternative? Do you think sexual slavery of adults is a more acceptable alternative? Because that is what you are proposing. Which does not fix the issue, does it?

    The whole prospect of getting young men who look like boys or can physically pass as young boys to act as fodder for paedophiles is abuse in and of itself and it is rewarding paedophiles.

    And you think breaking pretty much every human rights laws and doctrines by having and enabling sexual slavery for paedophiles is a better alternative?

    Really? These paedophiles are police officers or armed personnel, in positions of power over citizens and yes, over children as well. Do you seriously think providing them with young men who look like boys is going to fix it?

    It's still sexual slavery and it is still enabling paedophiles. And yes, it is an extreme breach of human rights and human sexual trafficking laws.

    And your solution is tantamount to trafficking young men who look like boys because the police officers serving in Afghanistan are paedophiles and apparently need to be sexually satisfied.

    Wow..

    That is absolutely appalling. Are you serious? What the hell is wrong with you, dude?

    How about neither?

    I'll put it this way, would you consign your son or daughter to sexual slavery for the greater good?

    You are literally living up to the whole ideal of male privilege, to the point where you support sexual slavery of young men to satisfy paedophiles in times of war.

    The young men who can pass as young boys are also part and members of a greater society. It is astounding that you think it is acceptable to consign them to sexual slavery to protect and satisfy paedophiles instead of jailing the damn paedophiles to begin with.

    Indeed.

    What they did to Martland and Quinn is appalling. Should be praising them for bringing it to light and instead, they are treated like criminals.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    He's also advocating with providing them with young men who can pass as boys for the sexual satisfaction and gratification of the paedophiles so that they hopefully stop raping minors.

    Believe me, saying they deserve protection is the least of it all at the moment.
     

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