Pot To Be Legalized In Vote In Alaska!

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Eluminate, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    So then when people become addicted and are psychotic, dilusional and mentally unbalanced who is going to care for them? Who is going to pay the doctors, lawyers and police to see to it those that are addicted don't become problems to everyone else. As you well know crack makes people rather irritable and baligerant as well as downers or barbituates. Speed makes people rater unpredictable and lose control of their ability to eat or hold down a job as well as other mental problems. So if we do allow drugs to become legal who do you say are going to help all of those more people that become addicted and still can't afford the drugs.

    Do you really think drugs are going to be that cheap? When corporations get their hands on adictive drugs I can just imagine the costs spiriling upward every so often.
     
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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    I'm saying we should treat addiction like an illness and manage it to mitigate the dangers to society, and that includes paying for the substances themselves. You should have to jump through some hoops to get it, which most addicts are willing to do, not make stuff available at every corner store. We pay for addicts either way, either in the cost of crime and law enforcement, or treatment programs. Who is paying to keep these people in jail?
     
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    There's going to be more problems than you realize. I've only touched on some of the problems that will occur. You think the jails are overcrowded now , wait until the legalize all the drugs that you think should be. I would never want to see people given that type of unfortunate chance to even try crack , heroin or coke for once theyuse it they will become addicts and then the problems will increase insurmountably, Without tight control on drugs we still have crime and you can't prevent crimes just by letting drugs become legal. There are always those in society that will abuse the drugs and sell them to children. What age do you let drugds be given to children. Beer today is bought by older people for children so who's going to stop the same people from selling the drugs to children as they do now?
     
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  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    I think they should be both controlled and legal. It should not be easy to get hard drugs, but, if the unfortunate thing happens, and someone gets addicted, they should have legal avenues to control and treat their addiction, the same way methadone is given out today. If pot were legal, we would see many fewer people seeking dangerous drugs in the first place. I've tried all those things you mentioned, and I'm not an addict.
     
  8. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Anyone who has money and wants drugs can get them right now. Some dealers are even like Domino's Pizza, they deliver!

    There is as least some control over children having access to alcohol. There are regularly sting operations targeting businesses that might be careless enough to sell to the underaged. There was even a recent sting here where people who bought for the underaged who asked them to outside of liquor stores were ticketed.

    Drug dealers have no such constraints. They are already breaking the law, and it is no more illegal to sell drugs to children than to anyone else.

    When I was in junior high school, it was easier to get Marijuana than to get beer.

    No, I don't buy your premise. All of the evidence I see points to prohibition worsening the drug problem. It is time to try something different.
     
  9. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Just as the legalization of alcohol has eliminated all of the problems it has, I don't get your thinking either. Seems that when alcohol was legalized more traffic deaths , more alcoholics, more crimes and many other problems have arisen. So when you say legalize all drugs then your only going to make matters worse because more people will take them and more problems will happen with them taking the drugs.
     
  10. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    So, if you write something it doesn't mean it is factual. There's allot of hype how good it will be but to many people have died overdosing, accidents happen and mental illness can destroy people thinking after doing drugs, funny there's nothing in the article about that, wonder why not since that is also reality.
     
  12. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    It is actually an entire book, not just an article. I'd recommend that you read the entire book before passing judgement. From what I can tell, it probably won't change your mind, but it can't hurt you.

    First and foremost, I'm against drug prohibition (including our number one problem drug, alcohol) because I don't feel you (society) have the right to tell me what I can put in my body. If I want to smoke lawn clippings, snort asbestos, or huff paint thinner, that is my problem.

    You (society) do have the right to prevent me from doing immediate harm to others. But as Art Hoppe put it years ago, "It is up to me to protect me from me."

    What you are saying about alcohol prohibition is contrary to all of the history I've read on the subject. Making alcohol illegal actually increased its consumption in the U.S. And it also created the criminal underground that is still with us today importing other illegal drugs (as well as creating the Kennedy family fortune).

    You fell that decriminalizing various drugs will make the problems with them worse. I disagree.

    As I said before, anyone who wants drugs can get them now. And I feel pretty safe saying that for the most part, the people who would be using drugs if they were decriminalized are the same ones who are using them right now.

    I could buy all the alcohol I want, and get drunk any time. Instead, I choose not to drink at all. Though it is illegal, the same is true of Marijuana. If Cocaine were legal, my level of consumption (zero) would remain the same.

    Throwing in the towel on a useless and counter productive "War On Drugs" would free up billions for treatment and education. And police across the country could focus their efforts where they should, in preventing people from harming each other (by stricter enforcement of laws against driving under the influence for one example), rather than futilely trying to prevent them from harming themselves.

    No matter what, some people will continue to destroy their lives by poisoning themselves with drugs. But as the cliche goes, "One of the definitions of insanity is to try the same thing in the same way, and expect a different result." It is far past time to try something different.
     
  13. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    Cosmic, what do you see as the difference between the current (and failed) War on Drugs, and the failed Prohibition of the past century?
     
  14. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    We learned that letting something that can destroy peoples lives shouldn't be allowed to be legalized just because the corporations deem it so. The businesses that push the legalization of alcohol were the only benefactors of their demands, most other people only found that alcohol can be a very bad problem if they don't treat it with respect. Some other people have died because of alcohol either directly from alcoholism to indirectly through automobile deaths. Any way you slice it alcohol is a major problem in society today and those that want to legalize drugs only want to do so for their own $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ greedy little selves.
     
  15. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Er... I would like to see it legalized; how am I greedy again?

    :m: Peace.
     
  16. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    No offense, but it sounds like everything you know about mind-altering chemicals was learned in D.A.R.E. class. Most people drink at least occasionally, and the vast, overwhelming majority of us have no problem with alcoholism. Yes, there are probably more alcoholics and drunk drivers than there would be if alcohol were banned, but that’s just the price you pay for living in a free society. It’s easy to make people safe in a totalitarian society, but most people agree that freedom is worth the risk.

    Do you really think that corporations are pushing for pot to be legalized? It’s mainly hippies, libertarians, and people with exotic medical problems.
     
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm stating that large corporations, like tobbaco empires, will eventually drive everyone else out of the business of selling drugs, any type of drugs. They want it legalized as to make cost controls on their side and reap profits while watching more people become sick, cause more problems and die from OD's.
     
  18. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm refering to drugs like heroin, crack , meth ,xtacy and so on. Pot should be decriminalized so that possision of les than 1 ounce would be a misdemenor with a fine the first time and higher fines as more times arrested but no jail time ever. Only if you have more than 1 ounce then you have a fine the first time with with jail up to 1 year. The second time with more than 1 ounce it is a much steeper fine and more years in jail.

    Wherever pot is there's always, always going to be all the other hard drugs and you know that as well as I know it.
     
  19. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    How about being able to have as much pot as you want, and not having to pay a fine or do jail time until you commit an actual crime?
    There's that D.A.R.E. class talking again

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    Like I said before, there are a great many people who use pot recreationally without ever trying anything stonger or becomming addicted. I used to believe all that ‘gateway drug’ crap just like you, because it was spoon-fed to me by various anti-drug groups. Then I went out into the real world, and shockingly enough I discovered that most pot users smoke pot the way that most alcohol drinkers drink beer; they do it occasionally, aren’t addicted, and it doesn’t interfere with their lives. You can say whatever you want about how using drugs predestines people for a life of addiction and ruin, but I personally know a number of people who use pot on occasion (around once or twice a month) and are very successful and happy. The idea that anyone who uses recreational drugs is a dead-beat criminal is a huge myth.
     
  20. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Nasor........

    "Like I said before, there are a great many people who use pot recreationally without ever trying anything stonger or becomming addicted. I used to believe all that ‘gateway drug’ crap just like you, because it was spoon-fed to me by various anti-drug groups. Then I went out into the real world, and shockingly enough I discovered that most pot users smoke pot the way that most alcohol drinkers drink beer; they do it occasionally, aren’t addicted, and it doesn’t interfere with their lives. You can say whatever you want about how using drugs predestines people for a life of addiction and ruin, but I personally know a number of people who use pot on occasion (around once or twice a month) and are very successful and happy. The idea that anyone who uses recreational drugs is a dead-beat criminal is a huge myth."

    Go to an AA meeting to hear how many people are addicted to alcohol and they started with beer. The same with pot, people can and will use other drugs once they start with pot. I can remember once that there was a great deal of cheap good pot for a long time , then suddenly there was no more because of some bullshit they say prevented the supplies from reaching the home town. Guess what appeared taking its place? Heroin, downers and blues or morphine to those who don't understand street language for the stuff. Funny how many of my friends got hooked on that stuff and 3 of them died. Yes, you sound like a good corporation boy selling everyone the good times until everyone is hooked then make a killing on those weak enough to give in.
     
  21. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    So you’re in favor of prohibition now? In a free society you are free to take risks. I’ll say it again, because you don’t seem to get it: freedom is risky. Never the less, most people agree that it’s worth it. Do you really believe that no one should be able to drink alcohol because a tiny percentage of people turn into alcoholics? Do you think that we should outlaw doughnuts and twinkies? After all, obesity kills a whole lot more people than alcohol.

    And by the way…“Corporation boy?” What the heck are you talking about? Can you provide any instances of corporations lobbying for pot to be legal? Or do you just assume that both corporations and pot are bad, so naturally one would support the other?
     
  22. Right now when you buy methamphetamines, crack or heroine you are really taking your life into your own hands. There is no FDA dosage or strength on the label. If these huge corporations were allowed to then they would standardize the illicit drug industry so that there would be far fewer accidental overdoses. The price to produce methamphetamines would be about the same as aspirin to prevent a sky rocketing addiction rate the government could tax the heck out of it and use those funds in treatment and prevention programs. Let’s try an effective law not one that does nothing but create a criminal class that removes money from our economy to destabilize our neighbor’s governments. If you allowed the price of weed to fall in relation to the cost of other drugs you would be resolving the problem of choices through economics not force which isn’t working very well at all.
     
  23. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Where did I say to prohibit pot? You can review my posts and please cite where I ever stated that. I said to deciminalize it not make it legal. Please reread my post perhapse you misread what I wrote or are you trying to alter what I said?

    As far as a good corporate boy that means many people want to legalize pot just to grow it and sell it on the open market like tobbaco is being sold now. How do I know that your not just trying to get pot legalized in order to make huge profits? I think anyone who promotes a drug that shouldn't be legalized has motives other than being civic minded. Pot does lead to problems just as tobbaco has done and you want to make matters worse for the society we live in. By having pot legal we will have more cancer of the lungs, more emphazima and other diseases that yet have to be found because research on long term pot smokers hasn't been done in a large scale testing.
     

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